Home / California Newspaper All Riled Up Over PINAC Reader's Comments (Updated II)

California Newspaper All Riled Up Over PINAC Reader's Comments (Updated II)

I’ve never been one to delete comments on this blog, even if they happen to be insulting towards other readers, because I prefer to side with the First Amendment in these matters.

In fact, I’ve only deleted a handful of comments on this blog since I launched it in April 2007, mainly comments that are calling for the murder of police officers or security guards not only  because these can be construed as threats and lead to legal intrusion from authorities, but because I don’t think calling for murder is something that should even be said in jest.

But insults between readers or even towards myself is something I’ve allowed to remain because I understand sometimes the discussions can get heated and I believe in free expression, even if it includes words that unsettle some people.

But now there is a newspaper editor and her boss who are getting bent out of shape because a PINAC commenter referred to her as a “bitch” and a “cunt.”

 

 

It all stems for the article I wrote last week regarding Monterey County Weekly photojournalist Nic Coury who was detained for photographing the Naval Postgraduate School from a public street.

I stated that the newspaper will not report on the incident in order to not appear confrontational.

I admit I wrote that statement based on my previous experiences and observations of mainstream media newspapers’ lackadaisical approach to dealing with authorities who detain their photographers and not on any specific insight I had on the Monterey County Weekly, which turns out to be an award-winning independently owned newspaper with a solid reputation for journalism.

So I understand if that statement would upset editor Mary Duan and the paper’s CEO and Founder, Bradley Zeve, who sent me an email today, demanding that I not only delete the comment but I permanently ban the reader from ever accessing PINAC again.

And this is a guy who tells me he serves as “Free Speech/First Amendment for a national press association (Assoc. of Alterneative Newsmedia).”

Meanwhile, Duan is asking me on Twitter and on Facebook why am I allowing my readers to call her a cunt?

It’s a fair question considering most mainstream media sites would probably not allow such a word.

In fact, just last week, WPLG refused to allow me to post a link to my blog in a story they wrote about the 82-year-old lady who was tossed off the Miami-Dade Metrorail for singing gospel music.

I wanted to let their readers know that this was not an isolated incident. And WPLG, who never reported on my attack by Metrorail security guards, later told me on Facebook that they have a policy to not allow outside links in their comments section.

And that’s their right, so I didn’t make any more issue about it after that, although it shows they are missing the point about interactivity between readers in this day and age of New Media.

In her comments on PINAC, Duan accused me of being a shoddy journalist because I stated that they would never report on this incident, even though she claimed she would be addressing the issue in her next column, which won’t be published until Thursday.

Coury, by the way, reported on Sports Shooter that he had been detained a second time, but I guess that wasn’t enough for the newspaper to publish something about the incidents on their site last week (so my original statement still remains accurate).

Anyway, the whole thing is pretty stupid, and I probably would have deleted the comment   except I took issue with Zeve’s email dictating to me what is acceptable and unacceptable for my site (as well as who should be allowed to access my blog) not to mention Duan accusing me on Facebook of hiding my “misogyny behind the constitution.”

You would hope she would focus her energy on writing the piece on Coury’s detainment on their site instead of twisting this whole issue into a feminist argument because it’s really about him, not her.

So I’m wondering what you guys think. Should I or should I not delete the words “cunt” and “bitch” from the comments section?

Before you answer, please read through Zeve’s email, which is posted in its entirety below:

You missed the mark completely concerning our photographer being detained. Shabby journalism, at best.

Monterey County Weekly not only was standing by our photographer, but we were poised to sue the Navy had they persisted in their approach to restrict our rights. Your opinion about it all was amateurish, and you didn’t do your homework. That’s unfortunate.

A little of our history (had you done so you might have discovered):

Monterey County Weekly won General Excellence, First Place, for all large circulation weeklies in California last year. We’re a finalist this year, again. That’s because we’re tough, and our journalism is first rate.

Monterey County Weekly sued Suterra and won, over their fight with us over trade secrets (and our willingness to publish their ingredients in a phermone they were planning to spray throughout California).

Monterey County Weekly was the only alt-weekly in the country to send a reporter to the front lines of both Kuwait during Desert Storm and again, into Iraq (unembedded).

That I serve as the Free Speech/First Amendment chair for a national press association (Assoc. of Alterneative Newsmedia).

Frankly, I’ve read your blog now, and the various attacks on Monterey County Weekly. I’ve read one of your users call my editor a bitch, and then a cunt. I’m amazed you wouldn’t delete those posts, don’t tell your users to show some respect to all readers, and that you think this contributes to the overall dialogue about the first amendment. Had you done some research, you would have discovered Mary Duan, the editor under attack, won a national award for best political column last year.

I think it’s time you deleted those postings, post some commentary about what is acceptable and unacceptable dialogue for your site and delete that user permanently from using your site. That’d show some class on your side.

Otherwise I’d say your blog is nothing more than a piece of shit, and contributes to hate and bigotry. What does Carlos Miller stand for?

UPDATE: Monterey County Weekly editor Mary Duan has gone on a rampage against me over allowing the word “cunt” to be used against her on my blog, proving that the word hit a little too close for home.

After challenging me on Twitter and on my Facebook page, which I keep public, she dedicated a post to me on her own Facebook page, which I am not allowed to comment because thankfully, we are not friends.

In that post, she called me a “pig” and a “douchebag” and went on to say that my girlfriend is way too young for me, basing her assumptions on pictures I have on Facebook, including one sexy shot I took of her baking cheese biscuits in which I caught her by surprise.

She also went on to say that the only reason me and my girlfriend are together is because either I have money or she has serious daddy issues when the truth is, I am just three years older than her. She just has good genes that keep her youthful.

Click here to read the whole discussion, including comments from PINAC troll and Duan’s White Knight in Shining Armor, Joe Livernois, pictured below.

Her friends are all egging her on in this fight, stating that I have finally met my match in confrontation, which tells me that Mary likes to take the shots, but obviously can’t handle the shots.

The truth is, I can wipe the floor with this woman because she already made the mistake of exposing her weakness, but I would rather not bother because I have more important things to do with this site.

 

UPDATE II: As I mentioned in my last update, Mary Duan felt the need to drag my girlfriend into this matter, accusing her of being way too young for me and only being with me because I have money and she has daddy issues.

Very misogynistic statements from somebody who accuses me of being misogynistic.

Even if her statements were true, it would be highly inappropriate and unprofessional for a newspaper editor to start psychoanalyzing my relationship on a public forum based on a Facebook picture on my wall just because she is peeved that one my readers called her a cunt.

It should be added that Duan, who has since deleted her comments from Facebook or might have just set her profile to private to keep her rants within her ultra-politically correct friends, prides herself on Facebook as being one of the “mean girls from the South Side of Chicago.”

My girlfriend is understandably irked because she had nothing to do with this brouhaha, so she decided to respond to Duan on her own blog, which is appropriately titled Rachel Unleashed.

Essentially, Miss Mary Mean Girl got her panties all up in a wad because Carlos wrote the story on his blog before her “weekly” publication did.  She goes on to criticize his writing skills, which is absurd given Carlos’ credentials and influence in photojournalist rights & activism.

PhotographyisNotaCrime.com reached almost 400k hits last month, and continues to grow daily.  Carlos is an amazing writer, and he writes the stories that other publications are too scared to publish.  Carlos has been a one-man-show for 6 years and doesn’t have a staff of 27 like the Monterey County Weekly.  I wonder how many hits Miss Mary Mean Girl gets on her stories, but I’m sure it’s not anywhere near Carlos’ stats.

Rachel also included the photo I snapped of her as she was baking for me that prompted Duan’s attack on her. She is also emailing the link to Duan and Zeve to ensure they read it.

And with that, I hope this little controversy ends.

About Carlos Miller

Carlos Miller is founder and publisher of Photography is Not a Crime, which began as a one-man blog in 2007 to document his trial after he was arrested for photographing police during a journalistic assignment. He is also the author of The Citizen Journalist's Photography Handbook, which can be purchased through Amazon.
  • ChattyCathy

    Clearly she’s a total bitchcunt. I don’t think moderating comments has anything to do with real/shoddy journalism. The journalism part is what YOU write, not what WE write.

    • Clark

      Leave them. They want to control their site, but get bent out of shape about controlling your own site.

  • SocratesGS

    Blaming you for your reader comments is like blaming guns for the actions of the shooter… oh wait… they do that don’t they.

  • John Neis

    Wow what a bunch of douchebags. It really goes to show they are more concerned with protecting their image than protecting Nic or his first amendment rights. If they spent more time doing journalism instead of monitoring the internet looking for people who bad mouth their laziness, maybe there would already be a story about these incidents. But I guess since they only plan to detain their photographers whenever they feel like it, it is not a big deal. Let me guess, these genius’s think that if they did something illegal on the NPS grounds they would only talk with them and try to make things right. No idiots they would prosecute you to the fullest. Yet they are so chickenshit they wont even file a lawsuit for the illegal actions taken against their photographer. Notice I say photographer and I dont say newspaper, because we all know as photographers the place we work for doesnt care about us one bit. And this crap of a publication proves it, by trying to hide these incidents and hoping that posting something a week after the fact will suffice for journalism.

    Monterey County Weekly; If its Happening now, we will tell you about it next week.

    • http://www.facebook.com/christy.p.herring Christy Porter Herring

      Dude. It’s a WEEKLY publication.

      • Carlos_Miller

        They have a website that they update frequently with much less interesting news

  • Guest

    Bitchcunt needs to realize that the 1st amendment is something we all outside of The Republik of Kalifornia take seriously. They control their site with violating 1st amendment rights, and you Carlos let free speech flow.

    • Jimbaux

      Please don’t use such terms to describe her. It only makes you – and, therefore, many of the rest of us – look like lowlifes. Please stick to criticizing people’s actions and not childish name-calling.

      • Fotaugrafee

        Nothing personal, James, but who cares? This is a blog, not a newspaper. Newspapers exercise censorship because they’re worrying about stepping on someone’s toes. Blogs shouldn’t be held to that same level of ‘care’.

        If they don’t like it, file a Hurt Feelings Report with the Internet Police.

        • Jimbaux

          I care, plenty of other people probably care, and the editor probably cares, since we can have an argument about facts without distracting from the issues with utterly childish name-calling. This is precisely why, despite our (yours and mine) similarity in substance and mindset on the issues, I am still unwilling to associate myself with you and your ways. If you can learn to speak to people respectfully and civilly, without childish name-calling, I might reconsider.

          “This is a blog, not a newspaper.”
          What difference does it make in this case? People are people.

          • RaymondbyEllis

            Jimbaux,

            It only reflects on the commenter. If I were arguing with a White Supremacist nothing he said would reflect on me, only my arguments back would.

            In this instance, asking for civility on what is essentially an American political blog (as it questions the actions of the State versus the Laws of the State), is like asking your mother to remain a virgin. American political discourse has been anything it not raucous, incivil, even slanderous.

    • Guest

      This is where the wonderfully apt work “moron” would apply, as well as coward. Most such comments come from anonymous posters.

      • RaymondbyEllis

        The majority of comments come from people using monikers. Those names are used because of the issues tied to the internet (employer repercussions, stalking, etc.). Publius, for example, was a moniker to avoid reprisal.

        Anonymous is different and leads to all sorts of confusion.

  • Jimbaux

    Referring to the editor in those terms is disgusting and unbecoming. I, however, also don’t delete such comments from my blog, merely because stupid stuff like that says far more about the person saying them than they do about whom it is being said. I have had some nasty things said about me in the comments section of my site, and I’ve just left them there for the aforementioned reason, as anyone who takes the time to look will see.

    Ogie Ogelthorpe apparently isn’t the kind of person I want to hang around, merely judging by his disgusting comments, and it’s too bad he had to (mis)represent us in such a way that serves as a distraction from the very real issues of what the MONTERREY COUNTY WEEKLY did or did not do.

    On that note, I think we should all refrain from further comment until the editor’s piece – her side of the story – is published later this week.

    Thank you.

    Jimbaux
    http://jimbaux.com

    • http://SocialMedia305.com John Mahoney

      He’s all about moderation, however, he appears to be part of the problem he’s crying about and I quote: “I’d say your blog is nothing more than a piece of shit” – real professional right there.

      • http://keithtipton.com/ Keith Tipton

        (Disclosure: I’ve contributed real money to this website’s upkeep.) Nuke the comments. It’s clear the person posting them would rather call names than say something particularly constructive (even complaints can be constructive, but these are not), and it doesn’t help the conversation move forward one bit.

        • Fotaugrafee

          Just like the railfan community, Carlos, they’re all so terribly worried about “unwanted attention”. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

          In other words, trespass to get your photos & get out of dodge before anyone can catch you.

          I firmly disagree with this mindset in ‘our’ community. If you’re doing something wrong, face the music. If you’re doing something completely legal, stand your ground & record the fireworks for all to see! :D

        • nicmart

          Absolutely right. An intelligent comment is rarely, if ever, supplemented by an inarticulately grunted expletive. It has the additional effect of alienating people who might be sympathetic to Carlos’s cause without good reason. In this context, the people who resort to trash talk are generally people insufficiently intelligent or literate to express themselves interestingly or creatively.

          • Jimbaux

            Right, it distracts greatly from the message that we are trying to convey, and it’s just stupid.

          • RaymondbyEllis

            “In this context, the people who resort to trash talk are generally
            people insufficiently intelligent or literate to express themselves
            interestingly or creatively.”

            In this context, that’s a sweeping generalization that borders on intellectual masturbation (meaning you pleasure yourself with your smugness about others, or something to that effect without dropping the “pleasure yourself”).

            Really, over the word bitch? What, you want on every comment a taste of Faulkner, Hemingway, and Dos Passos, or Gogol, Doestoyevski, and Turgenev (I can’t stand Tolstoi so I left him out)? I left Miller out for obvious reasons.

            Right now I’m going for Kafka.

          • Jimbaux

            Well, Raymond, look at how much it has distracted all of us from the real issue, the original issue of the photographer’s detention and the newspaper’s way of handling it.

          • Guest

            Right. I constantly confuse idiots who post comments like yours with Faulkner.

        • http://www.friendsofBones.org Matthew Korte

          I think the original bitch-calling was a pertinent if cheeky response. The option of cunt-naming was a comment on the umbrage taken by the
          editor. It wasn’t idle abuse.

          • RaymondbyEllis

            My take too. C**t may call out the Mrs. Grundy’s, but in context it was actually rather, dare I say, funny. What, you want worse? Are you talking to me?

            A sense of humor, no matter how skewed, is better than none at all. Then again, I laughed my butt off watching “Pulp Fiction”. I blame it on a bad childhood. They let me read Swift and Twain (“Letters to Earth” wasn’t very nice; Irish babies may be tasty, but the breast cancer was horrific).

          • James M Morriss

            I had a public education but even I would finish a thought. “They let me read Swift and Twain…” Fast and between what? Common man, don’t leave us hangin!

            That seems to be problem with the other side, they “follow orders”; no critical thinking. They were not allowed to read great literature and then asked to think about it. They were told that ‘bitch’ and ‘cunt’ are bad. So they’re bad and can never be good. It is beyond their powers of thought to stand aside and see the words/thoughts as humor or satire. God forbid they should even see that they might have been a bit out of line or worse, wrong! It requires the ability to have the thought “I was wrong” or “what I was told was not the (whole) truth”, they can’t do that.

            Oh, and Cops are good, you can’t take pictures here, and you have to do what I say, They can’t put it [in print, in a broadcast, on the internet] if it’s not true.

          • Davo

            Their elitism (and poor editing) has been revealed for all to see. Leave the comments and move on.

          • nicmart

            I’m afraid this site has finally sunk to a level where I’m not willing to muck about. The notion that it is necessary to condone rude and disgusting comments in defense of liberty is ridiculous. Balko (Huffpost), Sullum (Reason), Richman (Free Association), Lynch (policemisconduct.net), McCullagh (Cnet), Bovard, Greenwald (The Guardian), and loads of others defend freedom without the trash. Time for me to move on and leave this to the swine.

          • Davo

            After you leave, you will be forgotten within a few minutes. As will this whole “controversy” as soon as we all move on.

          • JdL

            Time for me to move on and leave this to the swine.

            Parting is such sweet sorrow! Don’t let the door hit you in the A**.

          • Quincy Bones

            So essentially you’re posting to proclaim that you’re leaving because you feel people should be moderated for saying offensive things and then directly proceed to offensively call everyone else who uses the site “swine”?

          • Carlos_Miller

            Mary is the type that frequently talks out of her ass as she did in the above FB page I mentioned but she takes comfort in knowing she can delete her comments when she gets called out – as she did with her FB post about me and my girlfriend.

            She is a bitter feminist who was driven to attack my girlfriend because she enjoys baking for me.

            How stupid is that?

          • Jimbaux

            Quite stupid, it seems.

          • James M Morriss

            Saw that pic and have been to “Rachel Unleashed”. What is not to like about her and that pic. I love when my wife cooks for me and love to take pics of her.(she hates it and threatens me every time…) That does not make either one of us ‘chauvinists’ by a long shot. I judge (OMG, I mean form my opinion about you.(always PC!)) you by what you post and your comments.

            Why do the TV and ‘news’ papers get a pass on their content by the “…do not necessarily reflect the the views…” paragraph? (necessarily? means they might but don’t have the balls to say so) You let users exercise their 1st amendment right to express their ideas in the way they feel best expresses it and I exorcise my right to Not read it.

            When I see a username that tends to have little worthwhile to say I skip over those comments and as for the ones I read; I chose to read them knowing full well that the words and ideas might anger me to the point I Choose to be offended. Yep, I believe that you cannot offend me I must choose to be offended. You can insult me without my permission but you do not have the power to offend me. I would seem that Mary Duan have climbed a 10′ fence for the chance to be ‘offended’ rather then just keep walking.

          • http://www.rachelunleashed.com/ Rachel Unleashed

            Thanks Jim. Appreciate the support! :)

          • thetruthhurts

            Bitch….Cunt…piece of shit…And Carlos didn’t say any of it…..he just let it ride.
            So, let it ride brother

        • JdL

          (Disclosure: I’ve contributed real money to this website’s upkeep.) Nuke the comments

          Disclosure: I’ve also contributed “real money” (what other kind is there?) to this website. Please keep the comments.

      • dissentingd

        I agree with John. As soon as he says if you fail to do as he wants, that “your blog is nothing more than a piece of shit” I lost any willingness to compromise.

        This is a great example of the differences between new and old media. Blog commenters can call people names and that’s ok; newspapers can’t allow that behavior because of corporate sponsorship, and its this lack of journalistic integrity that is one of the many reasons old media is dying.

        I’d rather give money to Carlos and let him call it like he sees it any day, then read politically-correct bullshit free-or-not.

        This is also a great example of how Facebook quickly delves into personal, rather than professional, discussion (and yes, I believe you can call someone a “bitch” professionally), which is a great reason to avoid too much social media.

        If people are offended by what others say about them on the internet, ignore it, argue with the trolls, or take your ball home and learn to deal. Its not the host’s, ISP’s, or society’s problem.

    • Guest

      What is there to be gained by posting ugly stuff that “says far more about the [often anonymous] person saying them?” Can we avoid the person thereafter by crossing the street or not attending his parties? We already know there are creeps in the world, and another reminder is redundant.

      • Jimbaux

        I don’t know. Ask the people who post such things! I don’t post such things!

  • Marxism is Evil

    This is the perfect example of how some media has gone so far leftist that they’ve circled around to fascism in some cases.. We need balance back in our society.. Extremists are destroying it.

    • Guest

      You got all that our of an objection to being called “cunt”? I don’t think you will be the appropriate “balance” advisor.

      • Jimbaux

        Right, how do you get anything about the “left-right” thing out of this???? How??

        • RaymondbyEllis

          Because it’s a false dichotomy that lends itself to about anything you want to claim such as “Republicans are Fascists/Nazis” and “Democrats are Socialists/Communists”? Perhaps in this case he was thinking of the need to censor speech you don’t like. (Censorship is done by government, but one can be a censor in private life if you call for, demand, others to speak only what you think they should.)

          • jboelke

            She is chair of a board on the 1st amendment.

            She does not practice what she should be advocating.

            The link to the photographers website is here.

            https://nppa.org/

            I urge the readers of this blog to read the code of ethics. Then write to both the people in charge and describe how their chair has failed to live up to the standards, and brings disrupt to their organization.

          • David

            the 7 words you cant say on tv. well this isnt public boradcast tv last time I looked!
            guess that bitches cunt needs a good scratching!

          • James M Morriss

            As I understand it You can say ‘fuck’ on tv. It just cannot be in the sexual context. “fuck them” is OK but not “let’s fuck them. Most of the “censorship” on TV is not the feds, it’s the networks. (ie: the advertisers)

          • Guest

            You understand it wrong.

          • Jimbaux

            Right, but different governments across the political spectrum have been guilt of that. This is not a left-right issue.

    • http://www.friendsofBones.org Matthew Korte

      I agree that this publication which prides itself on its progressive cred is exhibiting an ironic narrow-mindedness. Tough journalists have thick skins.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.bowling1 Robert Bowling

    Considering that the primary point (as I see it) of PINAC is defending the First Amendment and increasing awareness of the threats brought about to it by the US Gestapo (DHS) and similar Bush Era Terror organizations (The TSA) I would advise that you leave them in place and admonish the Editor of the paper that he is way out of line trying to dictate to you how you conduct the business of your media outlet.

    I would however encourage readers to keep their comments civil. Namecalling and profanity really don’t solve anything and only, in my experience, add fuel to the fire in an argument.

    Finally I suggest that the woman in question should not be publicly haranguing you on FB and Twitter and should be brought up short by her Editor for it.

    • http://dailygrackle.wordpress.com NoelArmourson

      Leave the posts up, please. I join others who would prefer civil discourse among us all everywhere we may be, but would wish to see reality as it is regardless. That’s part of what photography is about, isn’t it?

    • RaymondbyEllis

      Could we please use Cheka or even NKVD, at least once in awhile? The Gestapo gets tiresome because they actually knocked.

      “US Gestapo (DHS) and similar Bush Era Terror organizations (The TSA)”. Yep, they’ve gone away since Obama. Oh, wait, they’ve grown stronger.

      I’m still working on that original terror organization charged with keeping dossiers on political dissidents circa 1937. Luckily for all of us, Wilson was long dead.

    • BMTLines

      Calling them “Bush Era” organizations is getting tiresome. The Democrats have done nothing to limit or reduce the power of these organizations in the last six years either. AFAIAC both major parties are responsible for these organizations and their abuse of power

  • Rob

    Please don’t delete anything.

  • Veech

    This newspaper is pretentious and contradictory. Leave the posts up, Carlos.

    • Ron

      I agree. This newspaper is just a bit too impressed with itself.

  • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

    Pull the posts. I understand your thoughts, and I realize that I’ll be in the minority, but it is your blog. What is posted here reflects on you.

    In this case, the comments serve no purpose other than to insult and denigrate in terms that are comparable to the N-word, similar words used towards Hispanics, Jews, etc.

    For those that will claim it is free speech, it is – but Carlos is the publisher and he determines what he will publish. It they want to post that language on their own blog, they are welcome to do so.

    • Jimbaux

      Actually, what is posted in the comments section reflects on the commenter. I get nasty names hurled toward me on my own site (when covering similar issues of threats to photography), but do I delete them? They’re really not about me; they really reflect on the maturity of the commenter!

      • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

        I probably need to clarify.

        It’s Carlos’s blog and whatever he determines is fine. I would not criticize him for leaving the comments up, and had the “ultimatum” from a small throw-away newspaper been directed at me, I would be inclined on thanking them for their opinion and to f**k off.

        Overall, however, I think his blog is better served without those comments.

        He asked for our opinion, so I gave him mine, but like I said above, he’s the publisher of this blog. It’s his call.

        • RaymondbyEllis

          I think Carlos, and he can smack me for thinking for him, has pretty much let the comments section run as a free speech forum where bad speech is countered with more speech, with the limitations he has stated.

          I don’t believe the size or circulation of the paper is germane (other than fighting against a large legal firm), really it’s the ultimatum on something that doesn’t rise to libel but only “I’m butthurt”.

          • Carlos_Miller

            Just updated the article with new info

          • http://geekhideout.net/ The G33K

            And the new Facebook comments by Ms Duane (and her entourage) mysteriously disappear. *eye roll*

          • Carlos_Miller

            I had a feeling she would do that, which is why I grabbed a screenshot. This woman is obviously new to the internet.

          • http://geekhideout.net/ The G33K

            Absolutely, though in the scheme of things she is just a drop in the craziness of what we all see on the internet with the butthurt conniptions of people.

            Btw seems you and I are part of same $500b (or is that $1T now) lawsuit with the other illustrious named defendants.. Now that’s crazy … this woman, nor her entourage don’t even come close to that level..

          • Gordon Freeman

            What’s the Carrie Fisher quote? Something like “You’re in a pissing contest with someone with balls you stupid cunt” or similar. Bringing Whoopie Goldberg back to reality during the filming of Sister Act. Someone needs to bring Mary Cunt Duan back to reality.

          • RaymondbyEllis

            Ohh, Whoopie Golberg. Love her. She got my “Hollywood Award for Dumb Hypocritical Celebrity” with Roman Polanski didn’t commit rape-rape and the prize of “”We’re a different kind of society, we see things differently … would I
            want my 14-year-old having sex with somebody? Not necessarily, no.” Drugged 13 year-old, she couldn’t even get the age right.

            My latest award goes to Demi Moore for alimony from Ashton Kutcher. “I’m worth 100+ million dollars, but I need money from my boy-toy(sorry Ashton, but really) to survive.” She had just as well tell middle-class women to hang their clothes in the sun to save energy. Reality is just so far away (I hear Dire Straights “See, you been in the sun and I’ve been in the rain
            And you’re so far away from me
            You’re so far away from me…)

          • RaymondbyEllis

            Removing is proving.

            All may quote me across continents, no permission needed.

            That is such a silly move.

  • Guest

    I was right the second time. She is a cunt. Fuck her.

  • Guest

    Have I mentioned that Carlos Miller swallows chimp shit?

    • James M Morriss

      I thought that was shrimp chips. See how easily you can be mistaken about what you hear.

      • RaymondbyEllis

        Or read. Really, I thought he was referencing a trip to the San Diego Zoo where he had his mouth open when he shouldn’t have, those primates are nasty. After that, projection.
        (Moved a comma)

        • http://www.facebook.com/stacey.perry.94 Stacey Perry

          As a female reader and citizen of Monterey County, I say please allow one area of the media where we CAN speak freely and where we CAN access what is really going on in our community, especially how our journalism is running, because that is who we trust for information. What is the point of reporting news if we can’t talk about it? I just discovered this website and it is fabulous, keep it up.

  • eddy

    She’s the one who came on all uppity and snarky when being nice and explaining the situation would of gone miles. Then when I call her out for sounding like a complete bitch (which she did) she goes off even more uppity and snarky. Hell, she even admitted she could be “more of a bitch.” Of course, then she proceeds to call me and “my friends” here on PINAC stupid. What the fuck ever lady.

    Carlos, I’m sorry I caused you this headache. I promise I’ll play nice in the sandbox in the future..

    • Jimbaux

      You could have acted like you were older than a middle school student (and acted like someone who passed middle school) and really taken the high ground, but thanks to your unfortunately unimaginative choice of words and name-calling, you’ve distracted everyone from the real issues and made all of us – all of us with well-thought-out arguments and civil-yet-firm ways of standing our ground – look like the lowlife you seemed all to willing to portray yourself to be. Winston Churchill was talking about people who act like you (but not necessarily people like you, and please note the distinction) when he said that the best argument against democracy is a five-minute chat with the average voter.

      Please do the cause a favor and go away. Thank you.

      http://jimbaux.com

      • Ron

        Wow. Could you be any more of an asshole?

        • Jimbaux

          Of course I could, but I chose to not be one at all, which is the point, and that others fight for the same rights should not either. Why are you even asking me this anyway?

          • JdL

            Why are you even asking me this anyway?

            Because you’re acting all “Holier Than Thou”, maybe?

            Please do the cause a favor, Carlos, and keep all reader comments in.

          • hazy

            I agree, he is acting holier than thou. Most readers would shrug off Ogie’s comment. The cry baby and her cadre decided to make an issue out of it for no reason.

    • James M Morriss

      Ogie
      I laughed out loud when I read the exchange. If you read my posts you understand that I don’t take people to seriously and what they say even less so. I think the most important two rules to live by are :
      1) Don’t sweat the small shit.
      2) EVERY thing is small shit.

  • Guest

    In the interest of raising the level of debate, Andre the Giant did Carlos Miller’s mother.

    • RaymondbyEllis

      Before or after death?

  • Noxx

    If PINAC censors it’s user commentary in any way, the density of hypocrisy might create a black hole into which we would all be hurled.

    That being said, I absolutely believe in community based feedback and regulation. The comments that started this are idiotic and non productive. Real basic troll material. I think it’s up to us as a community to address that.

  • Difdi

    From what I can see, it’s a case of being so insulted by the use of a rude word…that the reaction is to become exactly what the common usage of the word refers to. In effect, retroactively justifying it. I’m not saying it’s wrong to be angered by an insult, but I am saying that if the response to the insult goes so far beyond a reasonable reaction and into crazyland, maybe the rude word was an accurate description after all.

    • Phred

      Calling PINAC a “piece of shit” makes that CEO no better than the reader whose post he wants deleted.i guess it takes one to know one.

      • Gordon Freeman

        Freedom of speech cuts both ways bitch.

        • Mike V. (Travel Underground)

          I would have deleted the “c***” comment, and quite possibly “b****” comment, for the simple reason that allowing such discourse discourages more intelligent people from contributing.

          Whenever commentary is directed at a specific individual who is or has been an active participant, there should be some modicum of respect in the interaction.,

          However, the writer lost any high moral ground she might have had by referring to your blog as a “piece of shit”. She managed to drop right down to Ogie’s level with that one.

          • RaymondbyEllis

            I assume you, like me, are the less intelligent people not discouraged from contributing?

            I may take umbrage at my own sarcasm.

    • Jimbaux

      but what’s the point of throwing the insult out to her in the first place?

      • Difdi

        Some people can’t express themselves without insults. Perhaps he was one of them?

        • RaymondbyEllis

          He called her a bitch or “a malicious, spiteful, or overbearing woman”, the latter more genteel the former more succinct. Both are insults. (I doubt he meant “female dog” or “immoral woman”.)

          However, the c**t comment is simply “what, I should call you worse?”. In context, I see c**t as just “extreme bitch”. If you really want to insult a woman, the four letter word “hole” is much worse.

      • Diplod

        Words consist of phonemes and definition. Which is objectionable in this case?

        • RaymondbyEllis

          Connotation.

        • James M Morriss

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonology
          [foh-neem]
          I know I’m not the only one who wondered but I cured my ignorance.

          Hmmm let’s examine that thought.

          “Cunt, hunt, bunt, front, runt rant; kant, kent, kint, kont, Nothing objectionable about the sound…

          [dictionary.com]

          “cunt:— n
          1. the female genitals (not relavent)
          2. offensive , slang a woman considered sexually (not relavent)
          3. offensive , slang a mean or obnoxious person ( ahah! fitting (see previous post) and if the shoe fits she should have no discomfort wearing it.)

          usage Although there has been some relaxation of the taboo against using words such as fuck in conversation and print, the use of cunt is still not considered acceptable by most people outside very limited social contexts. Though originally a racily descriptive word in Middle English, it has been taboo for many centuries and continues to be so

          [urbandictionary.com (#21.)]

          “Cunt: Noun – an offensive word used to decribe someone
          who is so utterly obnoxious no other word or phrase can accurately
          paint a mental picture of this person’s personality…or lack of it.

          A prime example of a cunt is my depressingly poisonous ex-wife:

          Her personality is not disimilar to a combination of Bernard
          Manning, Roy Chubby Brown and Adolf Hitler after consuming copious
          amounts of acid and alcohol on a week-long bender. She is thick as pig
          shit, thinks she knows everything yet knows absolutely nothing, loud and
          oppressive both at home and in public, totally socially inept, bores
          the fuck out of everyone with her bigoted opininons, pisses off everyone
          she comes into contact with, loses any friend she makes or any job she
          gets, acts like a spoilt little brat, whinges about everything, is never
          happy, completely financially irresponsible, totally useless in every
          aspect of adult life, has a tantrum if she doesn’t get her way, she’s
          mentally unstable, gets horendously pissed and drives round to my house
          at 2am to scream the neigbourhood down, break into my house and beat me
          up, gets taken home by police TWICE (the first time accompanied by her
          large dog), throws knives and full pint glasses at me, smashes up the
          house, has no sense of self respect, a rude and obnoxious gobshite….”

          I think we have found a reason she might take offense at this but as previously mentioned:”if the shoe fits…”

  • Moog

    Let them write the piece….will mean more exposure for PINAC. ;)

  • Guest

    I appreciate the voice of reason in what you are saying about this name-calling issue going on. Thank you for speaking up for basic intelligence and decency. I have to agree with you — name-calling only points out the deficiencies of the namER, not the namEE :)

    • Jbroyles

      Is there even a question here. Clearly censorship isn’t the way to go. They can take their awards and shove them up their collective asses. While I support them adding to this discourse and clarifying their position/correcting misconceptions, acting like bullies is completely unacceptable. Perhaps a quick note to you correcting the record and asking you to publish an update was warranted but asking you to remove comments that portray them in a negative light directly contrasts everything they say they stand for as an indie journalism shop. Lastly, I highly doubt you can be an editor at a self-proclaimed “alt-weekly” and never have been called names like bitch or cunt before. The only thing worse than bullying, is phony outrage. Who’s stirring the pot now?

    • RaymondbyEllis

      The problem is if the name-calling is used to describe the person by how they are acting. That’s likely an appropriate use.
      Name-calling to avoid dealing with a person’s argument is ad hominem. That’s always bad for the simple reason that it’s specifically used to avoid dealing with his argument and to dismiss his argument by way of your claim of “who he is”, as if “who he is” negates his argument.

      The ACLU was founded by a Communist, which is true in a way. So that particular “name-calling” is accurate in a way. After that, ACLU and communist is just ad hominem. Saw that back in the 1960s when the ACLU was fighting for basic rights as guaranteed by our Constitution (by way of that “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”, rights that no government can take away) which was just that commie ACLU trying to undermine order. Dismiss the argument with that ad hominem.

  • Andrew

    I typically moderate my forums for hate, as it’s not constructive. You don’t have to, but it does keep the place classy.

    • Anonymous

      Define hate?

      • RaymondbyEllis

        I’ve tried and it’s a bitch. I do know it when I see it, I just don’t see it when others do. I must be schmuck.

        • RaymondbyEllis

          Okay, I’m article challenged: “a schmuck”. I more fully understand why Monty Python avoided punch-lines.

          • Anonymous

            I appreciate the work you do, and your ability to take as well as deliver criticism. Keep up the excellent work!

          • Kris Trainer Striversfitness

            It’s interesting that she cite’s all these awards for reporting on issue’s other than police violence which they seem to be to intimidated to deal with, but a random troll is an issue that you need to handle personally. If she needs a male to back her up, or another authority figure EI: banning said troll, and self censoring your blog… something they’re already doing by not exposing police, and security guard violence that their readership may be exposed to. Perhaps both her skin, and journalistic integrity are both, a little to thin for the public format? The reason this country is a mess is due to corporate journalism and non reporting important issue’s such as Exxon being able to block media access to a public oil spill while keystone XL is about to be voted on. I would condescend to put some stars in the offending words like b***tch or C**t and wait for the stellar in depth police violence expose that their firebrand reporting is known for…

          • RaymondbyEllis

            Almost all media are reluctant to report skeptically on the justification of police violence, or even the incident before the police justification. About the only thing I can give to Fox News affiliates is they seemingly report with skepticism from the very beginning rather than waiting and regurgitating the PD PR. That is, BTW, more than I can give to any broadcast news on anything.

            Necessary disclaimer: I have only seen Fox News on my computer, and then only by link to a specific story. Does that clear me of being a dumb Fox News watcher? I’m still working on how wrong Cronkite was about the Tet Offensive. I’ll catch up..

          • Kris Trainer Striversfitness

            Hey RaymondbyEllis, You’re living proof that we can watch Fox, and still think independently(hope for America at last). Great Cronkite reference thank you!! America is currently more focused on any T*t offensive, or “reality TV” rather than relevant news that real reporters like Cronkite used to keep our democracy healthy. By not reporting the horror’s that immoral wars are creating, big business can keep Americans from feeling the moral outrage that the unvarnished truth would create whether thats the war on “terrorism”, or the war on American citizens, and minorities by out of control police violence that is 8 times more likely to kill you than FBI funded Madras schooled “terrorist’s”…

    • RaymondbyEllis

      However, defining hate is problematic.

      Writing that women physically abuse and/or kill their children at a rate of roughly twice that of men is considered hate speech by some women’s groups; writing that cops commit sex crimes at 2 to 3 times the rate of the general population (and pointing out that they go through a vetting process that should produce the opposite) is considered anti-cop; and finally, given that we use sex specific profanity for males and the same for females where females use the former with abandon and no fear of “hate speech”, it’s disingenuous on the part of most women to take umbrage and tie it to misogyny. Umbrage is fine, misogyny is hypocritical.

      As for c**t, Henry Miller could use the word as a soft caress on one page and a bludgeon on the next. In this context, this is the best view “I think the original bitch-calling was a pertinent if cheeky response. The option of cunt-naming was a comment on the umbrage taken by the
      editor. It wasn’t idle abuse.” It was “so I should have called you worse?” Poor choice to use the “worse” but more cheekiness. And Nicolas Martin as a user of words you should understand that.

      • James M Morriss

        It’s the word ‘nigger’ all over again. Different word, different groups, but, it is the EXACT same symptoms.

        • Rob

          Shut the fuck up Jim. It’s a fucking word, not a dick, don’t take it so hard.

    • James M Morriss

      And this isn’t a classy site?!? AND another thing Even third class or no class at all is a class. hmmmm I wonder if she would have even known to be insulted if I were to call her “untouchable?”

  • Marty Gilbert

    If you censor speech you are no different than those who refuse to use there speach to report on things that are important to the community. No one should dictate to anoughter what they can say short of it being life threatening.

  • http://geekhideout.net/ The G33K

    The interesting thing here is that the user in question NEVER actually called the Editor a ‘cunt’. Instead they asked if that would of been preferable since the editor took umbrage at the ‘bitch’ term.

    Also since PINAC is a private site the First Amendment to the Constitution is irrelevant here as anyone who allegedly holds a Free Speech/First Amendment position in a national organisation should know and instead are using the 1st as a ‘stick’ to try to get there way, which is hypocritical in the extreme.

    As for specifically requesting to bann a user for something that some third party finds offensive (unreasonably it seems from the context) that is so absurd, especially from some organisation that allegedly abides by the 1st Amendment, and was willing (based on email statement above) to take legal action on restriction of rights by US navy, though would instead deny similar rights and due process to a commentator because they themselves feel aggrieved (a common condition known as butthurtitis). Oh and the “piece of shit” statement at the end of email speaks volumes upon the CEO’s character.

    Carlos, the best thing you could of done is shine the sunlight on them like you have done here. I would (if it occurs) update the original post to reflect any ‘editorial’ that might occur on Thursday, and yes there should be a policy in place for egregious posts but the posts by Ogie Ogilthorp doesn’t even come close to it (and are more hyperbole than anything).

    Keep up the good work and maybe the Editor and CEO of the newspaper in question need to take a long hard look at there own public actions and a well known phenomenon called the Streisand Effect before they cavort around like petulant children.

    • hazy

      For them to claim they are journalists on one hand and then demand the removal of an insult on a 3rd party site is plain HYPOCRITICAL. Are they journalists or not? I think they are charlatans personally.

  • SwimmingTowardsPie

    I’m pretty sure no one gives a shit about the thirty-squirty awards the paper and its staff have won.

  • Shovel Driver

    As I read it, “bitch” is not necessarily derogatory, though it is descriptive. Quite so. Given that her initial response verbalized her dislike for that “adverbial noun”, the respondent was simply being courteous when he chose another such term.

    Leave it up, else the “new” story has no background. Besides, with no record, if she/he ever decides to push it, there will be no evidence of their threatening behavior.

    • Prisoner416

      Normally, I’d say to edit the posts in questions, but the comments about your blog by them were unwarranted and inexcusable. Politeness runs both ways. Leave them up.

      • Prisoner416

        Do what I did. Click the facebook discussion, click the x in the top-right, click file report, and mark it as harassing a friend. Facebook should remove it once enough reports are logged.

  • Carlos_Miller

    This is a woman who admits on her own FB page, which can seen above, that she would “own the bitch part,” she just doesn’t believe she is a cunt.

    Of course, nobody gets to pick their own insults.

    Whatever she is, she’s not somebody I would want to associate myself with because she comes across as bitter and vindictive.

    • RaymondbyEllis

      So if she can own bitch, why was she offended before he responded with c**t (extreme bitch)? Having it both ways I guess.

      Carlos, I pick my own insults, thank you very much, but no one pays attention and keeps using one’s I don’t want. It’s very rude of them to ignore my wishes.

  • http://www.hisnameistimmy.com Tim in SF

    What a mess!

    I think your reporting in that story was not up to your usual standards, Carlos. You jumped to a conclusion and they were in the right to call you out on it. I’m glad you admitted error on this point.

    That said, Mary Duan opened herself up for abuse by posting her comment. She shouldn’t have been surprised at the name-calling. Really – you’d think someone in her position would be aware that comment threads are the sewer of the Internet. The proper response would have been for her to write a response on her own blog. Perhaps even posting a link here to her post would be appropriate. That’s what professionals do – lobbing shots from their respective positions of power, not from the peanut gallery.

    If I were in your position, I wouldn’t have deleted the c-word comment, either. I might have scolded the guy who said it – that would have been gentlemanly – but I would not have taken it down. Good for you.

    Their tirade regarding your commenters is ludicrous. If they turned off the filters on their own site, their comment threads would most certainly be filled with worse comments. Have you ever read the comment threads on weekly newspapers? The dumbest of the dumb. We’re talking Fox-news-viewers dumb.

    This whole thing reads like amateur hour. It’s embarrassing.

    • RaymondbyEllis

      They can be this: “comment threads are the sewer of the Internet”. That raises the obvious question of why have you lowered yourself to wade in this particular sewer? Really, you mean they can be, but only a few threads among many, and certainly not yours.

      “I might have scolded the guy who said it – that would have been gentlemanly – but I would not have taken it down.” And it has been scolded by many commenters, but paraphrasing what Carlos pointed out, why the outrage over what a woman has been called when what men are routinely called is so often glossed over? If this were reversed, and she called a commenter a schmuck then a cocksucker, really would you raise such a fuss? Take a breath and be real honest with yourself. Equality hangs in the balance.

      “Have you ever read the comment threads on weekly newspapers? The dumbest of the dumb. We’re talking Fox-news-viewers dumb.” I’ll start with a disclaimer: in late 2005 I went with newsfeeds from around the world (a real kick on views) and haven’t watched American TV news since, and have never seen Fox News. I have however followed links to various affiliate CBS, NBC, etc., news reports and Fox News affiliates are the only ones that actually looks at police excesses and report on it without vomiting the local PD PR take. The commenters recognize the difference. The Fox-news-viewers dumb is a nice meme, but I’ve seen such stupidity on the other networks blog comments that make the meme itself is stupid. You really think one part of the population is smarter because it watches CBS news?

      If you want real group think where partisanship makes you stupid: go to Daily Kos.

      I was raised on Cronkite and Huntley-Brinkley. They only appeared to be better. I actually gave up on network news when CNN admitted they lied about Iraq in order to bring us the news from Iraq, the Duranty excuse. It just took years for me to give up the addiction, I should have given it up when they blew up mini-vans.

      • RaymondbyEllis

        Just in case you go “but you have seen Fox News”, I’ve seen it only by links in the same way I’ve only seen CBS, NBC, and ABC since 2005. I still occasionally watch CNN; I hope the tracks will go away. My veins are good, still.

        Just to add more to my vent about your “Fox News viewers are dumb”, have you paid attention to what Carlos has written and shown, or Balko, or so many others? Your networks-for-smart-viewers don’t report, and your likely esteemed newspapers don’t report, the excesses of police with skepticism until it’s so egregious that to ignore it would back fire on the network or paper. Otherwise, they suck on the PD PR departments…

        Fox News affiliates are by far the ones that show up on YouTube as questioning the police. So how dumb are you if you depend on CBS, NBC, ABC, and CNN?

        • http://www.hisnameistimmy.com Tim in SF

          “Fox News affiliates are by far the ones that show up on YouTube as questioning the police.”

          I’ve had Carlos’s column in my RSS feed at least a year before he moved *to* PIXIQ. What was that, 2010? 2009? I don’t remember. But, I do remember that in that time, I’ve seen a lot of reporting by local affiliates, many of them local Fox affiliates, true.

          But, that really wasn’t my point. The term “Fox News Viewers” usually refers to people who watch the national Fox News feed – you know, the one with Hannity and all those others. If you think “Fox News Viewers” refers, instead, to someone who watches their local Fox affiliate, then you and I disagree on this point.

          “So how dumb are you if you depend on CBS, NBC, ABC, and CNN?”

          If I relied on cable news for my current events, I’d have to be pretty dumb. If I watched a lot of Fox news, I would probably consider myself among the smartest people on the planet – certainly smarter than the “know-it-alls” with science degrees and all that book learnin’.

          • RaymondbyEllis

            But I don’t, so I’m left with Fox affiliates do more than the others. I’m still working on the CNN “we lied about Iraq so we could bring you the news from Iraq”. Firing was butt saving.

            “If I relied on cable news for my current events, I’d have to be pretty
            dumb. If I watched a lot of Fox news, I would probably consider myself
            among the smartest people on the planet – certainly smarter than the
            “know-it-alls” with science degrees and all that book learnin’.” You’ve just nailed the thoughts of those that watch all those networks I listed. Well,except, that the non-Fox viewers are as likelly to think they got all that book-larnin’ and their science degrees mean something even if they don’t know what science means.
            I gots a BSChe, therefore I’s know everything sciency.

      • http://www.hisnameistimmy.com Tim in SF

        “That raises the obvious question of why have you lowered yourself to wade in this particular sewer?”

        I’m not sure. I can’t even figure out why I am lowering myself even further to reply to you. HA! :-)

        “in late 2005 I went with newsfeeds from around the world (a real kick on views) and haven’t watched American TV news since”

        I’m happy for you that you’ve had your revelation about TV news, but I think you’re a little late to the party. I haven’t watched TV news since the eighties. It’s fiction. If you want news, read a newspaper. I figured this out as a 13 year old, but then again, I had liberal nonconformist parents.

        “The Fox-news-viewers dumb is a nice meme, but I’ve seen such stupidity on the other networks blog comments that make the meme itself is stupid.”

        That particular meme is based on evidence:
        http://read.bi/Lp59H3

        • Phred

          Bringing someone into the controversy who has nothing to do with it whatsoever is an admission that you are depleted of sensible arguments and have nowhere else to go.

        • RaymondbyEllis

          You lowered yourself because you couldn’t help yourself.

          “I haven’t watched TV news since the eighties” So you’ve been doing what I did, read newspapers. Certainly not going onto the Internet for news.

          “If you want news, read a newspaper. I figured this out as a 13 year old, but then again, I had liberal nonconformist parents.” I was reading newspapers by ’63, by ’67 I knew that newspapers were, well, less than accurate. I had wild, earthy, grandparents and great-grandparents. They pushed I read with skepticism, as nothing someone writes is more than what they write. Conform in one way, not in the other, really big on the FF.

          I’m sorry you had liberal, nonconformist parents, as they were likely non-conforming on nothing important, and likely read newspapers skeptically only when they saw the need because the article disagreed with them. My upbringing was with Spanish-American War children, WW1 children, and Depression-era adults. Newspapers were just words in print. Nothing more.

          As for the Fox meme, you left out MSNBC, likely by training from those liberal, nonconformist parents. And, I won’t search to give you a link, but I’ve seen other studies saying the opposite and including MSNBC.

          I’m sure those liberal, nonconformist parents taught you that all those people that listen to what they and you don’t are stuooopid. I’d listen to NPR, but the pompous, smug, patronizing tone (think the Spanish Patron) puts me off, rather than off-puts me.

  • Ron

    You could say she commented on your girlfriend on which she knows absolutely nothing.

  • steveo

    Dear Editor of the MCW: I would rather you just say “Thank you” for us going to jail and being confrontational so that you can enjoy your freedom of the press”.

    • Jimbaux

      Well said, except that Freedom Of The Press is for EVERYONE.

  • 5oh4

    From her original post, there is absolutely no way whatsoever to determine that a female wrote that post. Nor her second. To cry misogyny is bullshit.

  • Tijuana Joe

    I studied Cuntology at the University of Tijuana, and, speaking objectively, I can

    conclusively say that she meets the specific criteria.

  • KCV

    Carlos, leave all the comments. I think they are great. I have been a reader for a long time now and follow the comments as much for entertainment as information. Much of the entertainment is the active discourse between parties in the comments which includes the profanity. The singling out words that are too insulting or inflammatory to be allowed in your blog is more of the same bowing to political correctness that makes me sick and weakens the whole idea of free speech

  • Kevin Daley

    First Ogie Oglethorpe is obviously a troglodyte and nothing I say should be construed as a defense of him. However, I see no reason why you should take down his posts. You have a long-standing policy and reputation of allowing a rather free-wheeling comment board. I have seen you reprove people at times but you rarely remove offensive comments, even if/when directed at you. Since it takes time to moderate a comment board and since that is also an editorial decision I think you policy is thoroughly justified.

    Continue to take the high road. The Editor and Owner have descended into name-calling etc. rather than debating the merits of you policy. Ogie Oglethorpe is the asshole, not you. However, Mary Duan is fast approaching that same area. I wouldn’t mind her complaining about the comments and of your reporting and asking you to take down the offensive comments but once you refused, and morover explained why, they should have just left it alone.

  • Guy Fawkes

    I love the site the way it is. Anyone advocating censorship either here or from another paper/blog can go fuck themselves in the ass with a 14 inch dildo. Male or female, if you advocate censorship as the answer to what you don’t like, you are a cunt.

  • http://profiles.google.com/kahrhoff Chris Kahrhoff

    maryduanisabitchycunt.com is still open

  • http://profiles.google.com/kahrhoff Chris Kahrhoff

    I would imagine Carlos, had she said she took offense to the comments and asked you to remove them in a polite manner you would have at least considered it, correct?

    But if someone called me and my blog “piece of shit” would start a war of words with me too.

    • Carlos_Miller

      Yes, if they asked me in a polite manner, I would probably have removed them because the comments really added nothing to the conversation.

      But it’s not something I like doing because I’ve long maintained a very laissez faire approach to comment moderation on this blog, which is one reason why people like this blog.

      • JdL

        Yes, if they asked me in a polite manner, I would probably have removed them because the comments really added nothing to the conversation.

        That’s your prerogative, of course, but my advice would be to leave them up even if someone asks you politely to remove them. Being able to state that comments are removed only in extreme cases (a direct threat aimed at a specific person would probably be one of the few I’d delete) is worth bragging rights.

        • steveo

          There’s absolutely nothing in the website monterey weekly about their photographer being arrested. Nothing.

          • Carlos_Miller

            We have to wait until Thursday because they don’t just jump the gun like I do on these stories.

        • Luc

          My first thought of Mary’s post was, “she calls herself an editor”. I thought it was a bit douchey.

          Now after reading what she has said, and seeing that the “misogynistic” card was played. My new thought is, she is a “Can’t Understand Normal Thinking” and a total douche canoe. Mary is also a hypocrite.

          Carlos, don’t delete anything. I hate two face people that claim to be for free speech, as long as they agree with your speech.

          As for Carlos being a “pig” and a “douche bag”, he is not. But he is my favorite Puto… But Mary is not my favorite Puta…

          Carlos keep up the good work and F**k that self proclaimed Bitch!!!

  • Bryan Broyles

    One, you aren’t responsible for comments your readers make. Two, you do have some responsibility for leaving them published, and three, it doesn’t involve any First Amendment issues in any way, so commenting on that portion of the duties of the correspondent above shows a painful ignorance on your part.

    That being said, given your prior position of leaving comments alone (except sometimes deleting threats [not always,as I’ve pointed out before]) you shouldn’t change it because the comment is particularly insulting and ignorant. Instead, I’d advise that prospectively you tell your posters that such comments will not be tolerated, and take them down if they occur. Exercising control and ensuring the comments are relevant is part of being a moderator. Of course, you don’t moderate, but you should. In my opinion.

    • Carlos_Miller

      One of the reasons I posted this issue here was to get feedback from my readers. And as you can see, the majority of them believe comments should be continued to flow unmoderated, so I’m going to leave it like that for now.

      I do ask that my readers attempt to remain civil, which I think for the most part they do, especially if you compare it to other sites.

      But free expression sometimes includes insults and I think most readers are able to handle it.

      • deymo

        Am I alone here, or did this lady go out of her way to prove that Ogie’s two original comments were spot on?

        • Difdi

          You’re not alone.

        • hazy

          She pretty much proved that her newspaper is a coward and cited worthless awards that mean nothing. Actions speak louder than words Monterey County Weekly. You say your writing an article about the illegal Navy detainment of your journalist? Publish it and support him. Till then, you have no right to talk as if you are more hard hitting than anyone else.

  • $910553

    Maybe just transpose that into “b!tch”?

    And call her a “Fluke” instead of a cunt. Although I usually add “filthy lying” as a prefix…

  • Carlos_Miller

    My girlfriend took offense to Mary Duan’s comments about her, so she responded on her own blog, which I’ve also added as an update to this blog post.

    http://rachelunleashed.com/2013/04/09/california-editor-mean-girl/

    • JdL

      Har!! Please leave the crude comments up, Carlos. The fact that this, er, woman, has gone postal is amusing and revealing.

  • Rob

    Whatever names people want to call Mary Duan, she has it coming. She’s mean, petty, and from what I’ve seen on the Monterey County Weekly, she’s not a very good writer. Since January, she’s had 5 comments in total on all of her articles, yet she has the cojones to call Carlos a quasi-journalist, who gets dozens, and in a lot of cases hundreds, of comments per article. Tell that cunt to fuck off, and worry about her own readers rather than yours. Fuck her.

    • hazy

      Amen.

    • Mark Olish

      No, I don’t think so. Only with human beings , thank you.

  • JDS

    Adding my voice to the fray; Let the comments stay.

  • EyeOnFremont

    I’m just not getting this. Based on the letter she sent to Carlos, Duan takes offense at two things: 1 – being called a bitch and 2 – being called a cunt. Then, in her own comments on her own Facebook page (snapshot in the article above) she acknowledges that she is a bitch and says that she will “own the bitch part.” So she doesn’t actually have any problem with being called a bitch, claiming that it is an accurate description of her. So that just leaves being offended at being called a cunt. But let’s break that down. If you go back to the place where Ogie allegedly called her a cunt, he doesn’t actually call her a cunt. He says “Would you prefer I call you cunt?” While certainly provocative, suggestive, and vile, it isn’t specifically equating her with being a cunt.

    So of the two things Duan takes offense at, one she acknowledges is accurate. The other didn’t actually happen.

    Now, if you think the ideas I’m raising here are subtle, remember that Duan is a professional journalist, the Editor of an award-winning news weekly. Clear writing and thinking are critical to her professional success.

    Beyond that, she has a difference of opinion with Carlos on the way to run an online forum. That’s fine. But she appears to confound the comments left a on a site by a commenter with the true opinions of the owner of that site. Or, at the very least, incorrectly inferring that allowing comments on the site suggests that Carlos endorses them. In reality, Carlos write the posts on the site and is frequently found commenting as well. His true opinions can be discerned entirely from his own words.

    Duan personally attacking Carlos and introducing Carlos’ girlfriend into the discussion in the way she has is at a minimum irresponsible and unprofessional.

  • http://clarkcountycriminalcops.wordpress.com/ Clark Crimcops

    It would appear by attacking people on Facebook and Twitter and then closing those avenues off from the public when she couldn’t take the blow back Duane is showing is she is not a cunt, but actually a cowardly cunt.

    If the paper has any standards the publishers will see the light and make Duane and unemployed cowardly cunt as soon as possible.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    Carlos, I missed the first update, too occupied in comments. But I did catch the first after seeing the second. I will quite frankly, without any guilt or shame, write what a total misogynist and misandrist bitch she is. I’ve dated women 16 years older to 9 years younger, they were women. Some baked alone, some cooked with me, some worked on my motorcycle with me, but all were real women because they did what they wanted to do. They wore flats, they wore heels, and I didn’t give an eff which (though I counseled against high heels and usually got told shut up or we’d discuss my boots).

    Yes, Mary you are both a misogynist and a misandrist. Take one picture and write what you did makes you both.

    (I do understand Mary’s envy and jealousy over the picture of her. What I don’t understand is that I’ve seen pictures of you…Is it your personality? Best wishes and happiness.)

  • dollym100

    The editor certainly does seem like a loose cannon and possibly a little unbalanced. However, I always think it is better to refrain from gender based derogatory name calling. There are many ways to make people look really bad with using bad language.

    It is also easier to keep the conversation on the issue of contention if you do not have to spend your words on defending name calling and insults. It is always better to take the high road as it allows you to maintain a patronizing attitude while going for the jugular.

  • http://www.friendsofBones.org Matthew Korte

    This is starting to become a flame war worthy of MaySpace. I said before a serious journalist would expect to take heat, and that applies equally to you. It’s time to forget about this woman and her issues and get back to your mission, which is the important thing.

    • Carlos_Miller

      I’m done with this issue. I just had to add their story because that is what started this whole thing.

  • http://lorddixiesblog.blogspot.com/ lord dixie

    Wow, so he deleted the pictures vs allowing them to arrest him and actually fight for his rights, when they couldn’t even tell him which law he had broken. Just wow, that’s aggressive journalism, BTW your girlfriend is too hot for you Carlos. CONGRATZ bro

    • Haeshu

      Yeah, she is hot. Welcome to Miami.

  • Dave

    your girlfriend is a babe

  • purple

    so what if your girlfriend is younger, or even a lot younger ?

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  • Ryan

    A total bitchcunt that thinks that winning awards actually means something.

  • Guest

    It does! It means you have kissed the right ass.

  • Ryan

    OK, I guess I should provide a serious response as well…

    I think that you’ve got it exactly right, Carlos. People that get that bent out of shape over some words should grow a little thicker skin.

  • Guest

    If it is worth saying, it is worth saying with your actual full name attached, isn’t it?

  • James M Morriss

    “Bitchcunt?” Really? Is that a bitch + a cunt, a bitch with a cunt?… It does seem a bit redundant. Exactly what is your definition of each? Now that I have thought about it I guess there is a subtle difference. Both are condescending, spiteful, mean, conniving, back-biting, and self-centered. To me the difference is a bitch does it by nature without a plan or purpose where a cunt does it with planning and on purpose. So perhaps it should be “bitch-cunt” or “bitch/cunt” Unless, of course, we are talking about a real canine then i suppose it would indeed be a bitch cunt.

    Hmmmm I seems I’m being a man cunt at the moment….

  • Andrew Cook

    tell them to take a chill pill carlos. my opinion is that you are either for the first amendment or against it. you can’t go just half way. freedom of speech means freedom of all speech. even that speech that you disagree with and that which you may find offensive. once you start censoring, where does it stop?

  • darksideblues42

    Some Editor…..”two incidents about which you no precisely nothing” Shouldn’t that be “know”?

  • guest1

    What exactly are you contributing to the public discourse by moderating name-calling? Shock value?

  • Your Mom

    Oh, how “high and mighty” of them. A rather boasting e-mail. Do me a favor, and tell them to shove their “awards” up their ass. What your readers write has nothing to do with your own opinions or beliefs. Silencing and censoring your users shouldn’t even be a priority. That’s a quick way to lose your readers.

  • http://www.licenserestoration.com Vincent DiA

    This blog is about the freedom of photographers. When that freedom is violated in any fashion I expect that to be reported here. If you ignore that violation and choose to not report or bury that issue that we (blogger and readers) are here to follow, then you can be as “first rate” and “tough” about the other topics as you like. If you try to defend yourself by pointing out how “tough” you are on the other topics by posting on and emailing PINAC…that is a bitchy move.

    Leave the comments, and stand by the fact this paper still has not acknowledged the incedent that brought it to your attention.

  • nrgins

    I agree with your position. Illegal threats should be removed. Coarse speech is at the discretion of the site. If MCW doesn’t want those words on their site, then it’s their prerogative to ban them. But it’s just as much your right to allow them. I think it’s fine to allow heated expression, but I agree that calls for death should be removed.

  • Jimbaux

    I’m surprised, Ryan, that you’re participating in the name-calling.

  • Guest

    Carlos, I differ a bit on this one. It’s not a First Amendment issue since it doesn’t involve the government. I see nothing wrong with prohibiting certain forms of extreme incivility, and calling someone a “cunt” would qualify. I wouldn’t call anyone a “bitch,” either, but I can live with it. While I entirely sympathize with the editor and CEO, they really do need to develop thicker hides. They have probably published many articles whose consequences have been far more hurtful to the subjects than a vulgar expletive. For instance, perhaps they have reported the name of a prostitute or a john, despite being aware that doing so could destroy families.

  • Guest

    it’s my constitutional right to lower the level of debate by pointing out that Carlos Miller is a donkey dick.

  • MilitantRubberDucky

    As a writer, I think that you took a presumptuous stance on what Monterrey County Weekly’s would or would not do in regards to this. If they did in fact threaten the Navy with legal action, then they may have/be refraining from writing any articles that may impact the proceedings. While I do think it was garish to go on citing all their awards and accomplishments, I think in this case it was somewhat warranted due to you maligning their paper by assuming their actions. That does not mean that you are under any obligation to remove the comments or the users who made them. Speech is protected, even when it is unintelligent, ugly, and misogynistic.

    As a woman, I am not against coarse language. “Cunt” is, in fact, one of my favorite words to use. I don’t however just call people cunts and bitches on its own and leave it be. It’s a garnishment, not a main course, and it’s clear your commenter doesn’t know the difference. I am not calling for them to be removed, it’s your right to keep them up, however instead of using purposely inflammatory language that does nothing to add to the conversation, perhaps he could use his critical thinking skills and actually add to the debate by addressing real issues with her response to your article, as opposed to childish name-calling.

  • Guest

    I’m curious, Carlos, if you would leave up a comment in which one poster calls another “nigger.”

  • RaymondbyEllis

    NM, are you new to the internet? The argument of “but you aren’t using your name, I am, so my words have more worth” was laid to rest long ago, and not in your favor.

    The authors of the Federalist Papers used the pseudonym “Publius”. I guess it wasn’t worth saying.

  • Fotaugrafee

    The mere fact that she referred to PINAC as “a piece of shit”, that CUNT can gag on my ball bag.

    How’s that for class, honey buns?

  • http://www.friendsofBones.org Matthew Korte

    I think the original bitch-calling was a pertinent if cheeky response. The option of cunt-naming was a comment on the umbrage taken by the editor.

  • Guest

    I can’t speak for her, but I’m thinking it’s the best you can do, which is very sad.

  • Jimbaux

    I would. Again, as I’ve said repeatedly in other posts, it says far more about the labeler than the person whom the labeler is trying to label.
    http://jimbaux.com

  • Gordon Freeman

    I would, I find it very useful to know which people use such language. It gives me a very good shortcut into how they think and how much time I should think about them (none).

  • RaymondbyEllis

    If they were both self-identified as black would you tell them they can’t use that word? Good luck on that. BTW, you don’t need scare quotes.

  • Difdi

    I sometimes refer to myself as a haole. I’m about as white as they come. Should I be censored?

  • demize!

    Do you have a dog in this fight or did your eagle soutt meeting just have some time before the bake sale? You dont like lowered discourse? Dont lower the discourse. I however find it important to express oneself freely, so go piss up a rope you insufferable cockwomble. Leave the comments!

  • Difdi

    Your constitutional rights protect you from acts of government. Carlos is a private citizen and this blog is his property. He could delete every comment you ever made on his property and ban you forever, without even coming close to violating your constitutional rights.

    And how do you know what a donkey dick even looks like? Close-up personal experience while catching an STD perhaps?

  • JoeLivernois

    right. and apparently open expression on this site allows me to note that you’re a twat. because, you know, moderating coarse comments inhibits honest discourse.

  • James M Morriss

    Difdi: silly you don’t ‘catch’ an STD you ‘get’ an STD and you get it from catching someone else that had one. ( um, did I lust say too much?)

  • Tony Loro

    A “Weekly” is once a week. so let them get more practice. Asking for another blog – site to remove comments and ban a user is WAY wrong.

  • Difdi

    I can decide to be a nicer guy, though I am unlikely to when dealing with people as needlessly unpleasant as you are.. But unfortunately for you, there is no cure as yet for stupidity.

  • Jimbaux

    Talk about a pot calling the kettle black. Wow.

  • Gordon Freeman

    Eagle Scouts don’t have bake sales, they are too busy looking for ‘gays’ and rooting them out.

  • Rob Mahon

    If he starts to moderate, he’s taking responsibility. By leaving people to their own devices, he’s not got the responsibility for their words (with the obvious modding of bodily harm of course).

    So as long as it’s legal, Carlos CAN”T moderate or else he’s lost the protection. (though there should be(is there?) a ‘all posts are owned by their poster and PINAC takes no responsibility over anything said’ so he’s protected by what people do on his forums).

    Oh, and the humour of wanting a post removed for bad language and then also posting bad language in the letter can’t be overlooked! Bravo Zeve!
    “Shabby journalism, at best.” Shabby^Shoddy, remove the comma as it’s not needed.
    “That’s unfortunate” incomplete sentence fragment. (I’ll leave the mess of the previous sentence for now, but far too flowery for an editor, try to skip the ‘we were’ to just ‘
    “Monterey County Weekly won General Excellence, First Place, for all large circulation weeklies in California last year” Not for spelling/grammar obviously.
    “phermone” pheromone
    “(Assoc. of Alterneative Newsmedia).” Is that the alternative way to spell Alternative?
    “won a national award for best political column last year” Care to link? When proudly proclaiming something good, it’s not a bad idea to specify the award or else we’ll think it’s a) made up b) in an odd category “Best political column in a knitting magazine” c) an ‘award’ that’s not worth the pewter it’s made from (or was this an internet only award?)
    “Otherwise I’d say your blog is nothing more than a piece of shit, and contributes to hate and bigotry” There we go, that’s really bringing the level of discourse up a few notches! You forgot to compare him to Hitler! oops, Godwin’d.
    “What does Carlos Miller stand for?” I believe, if I may to put words in his mouth. That he fights. For our rights. To party, and take pictures of such.

    As an editor, you would do better to fight the battles worth fighting, and realise that you’ve a potential brother in arms here, not an opponent.

  • JoeLivernois

    This controversy is based on whether a dumbass should allow mouth-breathing morons to call a woman the most despicable thing you can call a woman on his site. And I’M unpleasant?

  • Mike Ross

    Carlos, you don’t shrink from confrontation, and neither does your comments section. Your commentators are a rambunctious bunch, sometimes overly aggressive and foul-mouthed, and the discussion can (in my view) sometimes be more forceful than helpful. That’s my opinion – but it’s your train set, your choice to permit that combative style of commentary. It’s not for me to tell you how to run your blog.

    I do think Mr. Ogilthorpe is no gentleman.

    If Ms. Duan doesn’t like that rough and tumble, the solution is obvious; she should stay away from here.

    I WILL tell you I think you should be ashamed for castigating her publication based entirely on your unverified assumptions and generalisations about the mainstream press.

    For that, YOU owe her an apology and retraction.

  • Jimbaux

    I agree with everything that you said here, though he may indeed already be ashamed for making that assumption. As I’ve written many times on my site – jimbaux.com – when you don’t know the reasons why something happened (or did not happen), you do not have the right to make up your own reasons.

    This was a theme when I blogged about my most recent ‘encounter’ for taking pictures here:
    http://jimbaux.com/2013/02/11/chip-retired-and-people-assuming-the-worst-in-others/

  • Carlos_Miller

    They still haven’t published anything on Coury’s detainment even though they have a website and are not limited to the printed page.

  • Clark

    There’s expression, then there’s slander, your comment is the latter given that it’s presented as not an opinion, but statement of fact. The comments in question by the article, are opinions. Poorly-expressed opinions, but opinions.

  • Carlos_Miller

    Why should women be treated any different than men on this site? I’ve seen men call each other cocksucker, motherfucker and so on, but nobody ever raises a hissy fit about that.

    Hell, Johnny Law used to get insulted on a daily basis and he was able to handle it.

    Why can’t a newspaper editor handle it?

  • Difdi

    If coming to a blog and tossing around insults about people you don’t know makes you a mouth-breathing moron, then you sir are a mouth-breathing moron. Is there more to you than that? Doubtful, going by what you’ve shown us of your character.

  • http://freedomsphoenix.com FascistNation

    Wow, hell yes, I’d like to see the bill. And it took you two issues to comment on the arrest of your own photographer?! What the previous issue was already full? [In fairness, they may have to send their issue to a 3rd party press almost a week ahead of issuance.] And acting like a cunt is no defense to being accused of being one in my opinion. If you had taken the high road you would have made things a lot harder on Carlos.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    I pointed that out earlier too. Women get to back-hand-press their foreheads and faint while men suck it up (that may have been a poor choice of phrase). Really they’re just words unless you are that thing, if you are it’s just a truth.

    As for c**t, it just means a real or extreme bitch, equivalent to a real cocksucking prick.

    “Why can’t a newspaper editor handle it?” Carlos, he’s standing up for a woman. If you worked for him and were called a prick, a term I find really offensive, he would likely be less outraged.

    BTW, to all, Disqus forces me to RaymondbyEllis but this is Ariel.

  • Freedom_Fighter_of_America

    Women want equal treatment. You can’t have it part way or your not equal.

  • Ron

    Not to mention all the white knights leaping to her defense

  • RaymondbyEllis

    And JL handled it really well. The Weekly not so much.

  • James M Morriss

    Editors can’t handle it because they spend their lives and make their living making other people “politically corect.”

  • Jimbaux

    She said that something will be published about the incident on Thursday. So, please join me in waiting until then to read it. Is there a reason you need her side of the story – which may be quite complex – right now?

  • Difdi

    Part of the right to freedom of speech/expression is the right to say things other people don’t like or get offended by.

    Nobody ever needed constitutional protections for a right to say exactly what a listener wants to hear, after all.

  • Paul Roberts

    I don’t see the problem, she got what she was asking for.
    Leave the comments, and send her a box of tissues.

  • Jimbaux

    Carlos, I think that she said that she’d have something published on Thursday about this, and I think that it’s reasonable to let her wait until then to publish it. It’s a complex issue, and I’m guessing that she wants to get it right the first time; I also don’t see any need to have it published today versus Thursday. I eagerly await her side of the story, and there may indeed be plenty to criticize about it, since I, like you, have to often seen journalists/editors/publishers relent in this situation (like you assumed this newspaper here did), but it’s best to wait. Thanks.

  • Carlos_Miller

    They have a blog on their site that they update in between published issues. If they are taking this matter as seriously as they claim, they could have easily reported the news on their site and continue to update their readers as the issue progresses.

    But I’m not going to tell them how to run their site. I just don’t want them telling me how I should run my site.

  • Charles Thompson

    I’m not sure that using crude/offensive language is a true gauge of the intelligence of the person posting.

    Just a thought.

  • anonymous

    The cunt got what she deserved. She was rude and condescending and got put in her place. Her boss is an asshole who has some nerve calling this blog a piece of shit. These two cunts don’t deserve civility. Treat them like the garbage they are. There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. To all those who are getting their panties in a bunch over it: stop wearing skirts and grow a pair!

  • RaymondbyEllis

    I agree with you there.

    OTH, this blog has done a hell of a lot regarding PINAC, and I doubt either of you really researched before that blanket “piece of shit”. But I do realize you two were butthurt and responded accordingly, including trying to tell others how they should manage their own blog. The “you’ve hurt my feelings so you need to delete” can make you the butt of jokes on the internet, which butts up nicely with butthurt.

    Not very internet-savvy on your part. Luckily, you’ve not yet reached the brink of Streisand.

  • Guest

    So Carlos Miller’s face is slimmer, he looks much younger and women find him more attractive. I get it now; this blog is a satire. Either that or Jupiter needs to have its license revoked.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    I apologize, I crossed you with Zeve. So you aren’t butthurt. Zeve is and consider my earlier to Zeve.

  • Guest

    Do you get laid often playing the white knight, defender of all women?

  • Difdi

    You are a satire of a thoughtful, mature man. And you did it to yourself.

  • Guest

    do the people on this site know Mary Duan? Are they more enlightened than I? They are free to hurl invective about someone they don’t know, but I’m not? unmoderated

  • JoeLivernois

    Good for you, Difdi. You’re starting to figure out where I’m coming from.Do the cretins in this comment section know Mary Duan? They are free to hurl invective at someone they don’t know, but I’m not? Why the double standard?

  • RaymondbyEllis

    The first word was bitch, rather ubiquitous and used by men and women equally to describe “a malicious, spiteful, or overbearing woman”, the second a retort to her umbrage over the first, the first a word she likely uses to describe women she finds to fit the definition (especially if she’s under 50). Really, her’s was just feigned outrage. His second comment was just a piece of rhetoric and by all this, effective.

    “It gives me a very good shortcut into how they think and how much time I should think about them (none)”, which only means you’re prone to shortcuts in thinking. These four-letter words, often just the words of the conquered, serve a purpose in the language and have survived for century after century for that reason. I doubt you’d say “oh, heavens me” just before you’re T-boned by an SUV.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    Only if the labeler is inaccurate about the one labeled. Trust me in this, I hate labels.

  • ieddiem

    mcw is so proud of those awards arent they? Lol. Ive read a number of their issues, and it’s not that impressive. Ive middle school newsletters with better writing and less bias. I agree the afore mentioned comments were not “nice”, but id say the world isnt nice. So how do the fine people at mcw respond? They respond like five year old kids would on the playground. Mcw, you have shown your true colors. Believe me, they arent pretty. Stop and look at yourself, your path, and your mission. The fact is you’re out of touch, but then so are many of your readers.

  • Difdi

    Actually, nobody hurled invective until someone who appeared to be Mary Duan came storming in here in a rage and dumped a bucket of it onto her own head.

    You were actually the first to sling any at someone else.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    Since it’s written, it’s more libel than slander. Yeah, there should be freedom of association for any group so long as it doesn’t deny public accommodation (a phrase stretched to match the Commerce Clause). BSA should be able to exclude anyone so long as it stays entirely private. It does exclude girls, and I really don’t understand why the fight didn’t start there.

  • Carlos_Miller

    The comment is way too broad to be considered libel. If he had singled out an Eagle Scout and said these things, then yes, it would be libel if it were not true.

  • JoeLivernois

    Mary is a competitor, someone who pisses me off more often than not. But I manage to treat my enemies with respect. No one deserves to be called a cunt, even if she is an editor, especially by people who don’t know her, just as no one deserves to be belittled because he thinks he looks bitchin with his new hair. I don’t know Carlos Miller, so it’s real easy to talk crap about him. He might actually be a rather nice fellow, righteous to the core. But it’s much easier to talk crap than to really figure out the situation. Moderation is civility and civility is understanding. Invective is lazy.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    White knights are stuck with the chastity of their armor, until the girls become women, however late, and get over the thrill of bad boys. There is a sociological study that came to the conclusion that girls mature earlier than boys (duh), but that women do not necessarily mature farther than men, and in fact men may actually mature farther than women. Peaked early but the peak is lower (my daughter’s words).

  • RaymondbyEllis

    Hey, give him something for “cockwomble”. A really obscure reference to pocket pool though more extensive as it means “the tendency to rummage in your underwear massaging ones genitals as if looking for litter to pick up”. Damn, I love the English language.

    As for this from NM: “I wouldn’t call anyone a “bitch,” either, but I can live with it”. That’s a good live-and-let-live philosophy, given you’re likely in the 0.001% who have never used the word.

  • Carlos_Miller

    The world is not perfect. Insults from anonymous strangers on the internet should be the last thing that would make us obsess for several days and begin an all-out war against a blog over those comments.

    Don’t you guys have a newspaper to run?

  • http://geekhideout.net/ The G33K

    Seeing that she is a competitor and therefore by implication you are either a journalist or an editor it is intriguing that you are erroneously trying to confabulate that she was referred to as a ‘cunt’ when in actuality she wasn’t. instead it was a question if she would of preferred that term instead which in no way (other than for reporters who can’t actually analyse the nuances of the English language) creates the impression that she was specifically called such

    Reading comprehension is your friend.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    The question is which “equal”, which sensibility, the male’s or the female’s? The problem with the question is that neither sex really wants to fully accept the others sensibilities, but the society wants to protect women from men’s “coarseness” while ignoring women’s.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    You mean she’s not a victim? She actually started the fight but didn’t expect a fight back? In fact believed she deserves to dish it out but not suffer having it handed back to her? Sir, you are no gentleman in this case, and it speaks well of you.

  • Six

    Since I used to live and work in Monterey I am familiar with most of the players involved, at least peripherally. The Weekly is a good, fair publication that has asked tough questions and done investigations of government employees at both the local and county levels. Sometimes stories the larger media won’t touch. They tend to be left biased but to a lesser degree than any other mass media publisher in the area. I never had a problem with their reporting. That said, for all the Weekly supporters out there, the same could be said for Carlos Miller and PINAC. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and calm down for just a second. It is not unreasonable for Carlos to make the observations and assumptions he did. It’s also not unreasonable for the Weekly to defend themselves and their handling of the situation. No one likes Monday morning quarterbacks and perceived attacks on their people. How about leaving things where they are until the Weekly does it’s report on the incident and then take it from there? If they fold then they will have proven they are what many think. If they stand up then they become an ally in the fight against governmental corruption.

    And Joe Livernois? You’re doing nothing to help, just showing your ass. Again.

  • Guest

    aaaaand… her Mary’s Facebook post on Carlos has been deleted.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    He was drawing from past experience over years, including his own reporting for the Arizona Republic when he worked with the police. It was a natural conclusion for Carlos, so you’re right he wasn’t being unreasonable whatsoever. The Weekly, had they done their homework by researching his blog, would have realized he was speaking from experience. Instead they got butthurt.

    “How about leaving things where they are until the Weekly does it’s report on the incident and then take it from there?” The problem from this point forward is we have no idea how this brouhaha has affected their future report, other than if they fold they are really stupid. If they don’t fold, go scathing into that night, it means what?

  • RaymondbyEllis

    Well said. She was asked if she preferred c**t, and has acknowledged that she owns up to bitch.

  • Ron

    She is too precious to be on the internet.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    No, because haole means “white person”. You should be censored if you think it means “Hawaiian” or if you are Hawaiian and don’t know it means “white person”. Kanaka was marginally acceptable for Hawaiian. Shaka brah, pinkie and thumb. (Two years stationed at Base Hono, Honolulu, Oahu, Hawaii. Never goes away. Aloha.)

  • RaymondbyEllis

    That rings true.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    Actually, you’ve just been hurling invective without any context whatsoever other than your troublesome experience at the San Diego Zoo.

  • Carlos_Miller

    If they didn’t know her then they know her now and their assumptions were not far off

  • Carlos_Miller

    But Joe, you’re a “hero” in the eyes of your politically correct cohorts out in Monterey, so keep up the good work!

    But as a competitor to the MCW, did you not think it would be wise to jump on the Nic Coury story considering they are waiting a week before they acknowledge it on their site and newspaper?

    That’s the only real news out of any of this we’ve been discussing.

  • Carlos_Miller

    Joe, it would only be a double standard if I were to delete your comments, which I know you’re trying to bait me into doing, but I rarely delete comments.

    So keep them coming. That’s what a hero does, after all.

  • Name

    What is this? Amateur hour? Both of you need to grow up and be professionals. Both of you also need to work on your proof reading and grammar.

  • Jimbaux

    That’s basically it, and distracting us from the issues that brought us here in the first place.

  • DocRambo

    Anyone besides me see the intellectual disconnect here with a so called reporter blaming Carlos for a comments by others on his site, and her Editor, allegedly a big First Amendment type, totally not understanding the First Amendment? Sounds like a bitch to me. Wouldn’t call her a cunt, I’m too polite for that.

  • Difdi

    Re-read what I wrote. Hint: it was an insult.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    But you can catch an STD by getting someone that has an STD. Playing baseball OTOH isn’t like sex, because in baseball you catch by wearing a mitt.

  • James M Morriss

    Are you saying that they need to work together or they each need to work separately? Your meaning is not clearly indicated. Perhaps “You both need to work … also.” or “Both of you, also, need to work…”or “Also, you both…” (That one starts a sentence with a conjunction but it isn’t ‘and’.)
    But your correct in your main idea, we could all be more adult…and lightly troll perfectly respectable posts like this one. ;->

  • $910553

    I would posit instead that use of crude/offensive language is sometimes the only appropriate action. Whether that was the situation in this case may be open for question, but…

  • Difdi

    I am in fact a gentleman. I was raised to always be properly respectful of women. It’s not respectful to treat women as children who don’t know any better, nor is it respectful to treat them as harmless regardless of their actions. Few things are more disrespectful than telling someone by word or deed that their actions are meaningless.

  • Barking Dog

    First off, Monterrey? County Weekly? You must be joking. Who is giving these awards?

    Not embedded? So why haven’t I heard all the earth shaking stories they broke like the Israelis are sniping us and blowing us up? Didn’t catch that story? And you were there? Nonsense.

    If you were there you’d know who was caught making sophisticated timer switches used to keep the pot stirred, or what country makes that sniper rifle with a video cam on it…..

    And as far as being mad at being called a bitch by a reader? Calls you a douche bag because you won’t censor things like the head of the first amendment guys says to?

    I grew up reading the NYT and was taught in NYC public school in the 3rd grade how to fold it in quarters so you can read it on the subway.

    I’ve been selling to the Times, Post and Daily News for 30 years. I left California because there wasn’t a good newspaper in the whole state and I went there for journalism school (Total waste of time)

    And after reviewing the Monterrey Penny Saver, that statement still stands about no good papers in Cali. And I said it in 1974. Boo effin who by a small town bunch of nobodys. Indeed

    So I know of newspapers . Never heard of the Monterrey Weekly Penny
    Saver. As far as the blog being a piece of shit, I guess they are well
    acquainted with the genre….

    Nice cover tho, but I know not to judge a rag by it’s cover. And did the editor really make grammatical errors? Pffft!

  • eddy

    Funny, I responded to her tweet about this and she made her account private along with her FB. Seems she likes to dish it out, but can’t take it in return. My assessment of her stands.

  • Carlos_Miller

    You called it immediately. Nobody is doubting that now.

  • mydadsays

    I think you have pegged her. She wants the story to be about HER. Silly silly silly getting worked up over comments on a blog. GEEZ,

  • Barking Dog

    “I agree. This newspaper is just a bit too impressed with itself.”

    Same thought here from the land of NYT, Daily News and NY Post.

  • hazy

    I think it was prescient.

  • hazy

    How long should we wait on an analysis of what we all know is wrong? It took Carlos 1 day, it should take them the same.

  • hazy

    I think the regular commenters on this site take more pride in their editing than Monterey County Weekly.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    You raise a new definition of gentleman, the one that needs to be raised, while I used the old which needs to sink into the abyss of antiquity. Treating women as children is the old, and too many men still adhere to it thinking they do well by women. But they do no true good for women.

    Dropping the affectation of some 19th or early 20th author: effing A. Women aren’t children; they are equals; they are fully responsible for their actions and those actions should not be relieved by a knee-jerk need to reach for an excuse; and their actions aren’t harmless because they’re women, anymore than men’s actions are harmless or harmful because they are men.

    Try going there on Jezebel or Feministing where gender equality (damn that phrase hurts but I must use it to be in context) is like Orwell’s “Animal Farm”.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    I think you give him too much worth in both sentences. How can you be sure he isn’t just a reflection of what someone else did to him?

  • RaymondbyEllis

    As best I remember, yes. And Pixiq just couldn’t take the heat.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    I thought they used twot rather than twat. Either way it adds a nice British vibe like a good parallel-twin (if you need to look it up: Wiki with straight-twin is just crap, no one called them that if the cylinders were transverse and the pistons moved in unison, no one called them that even if they didn’t move in unison – really rare – and the only inline twin I can think of quickly was the Sunbeam S-7 and S-8, longitudinal inlines by crank and cylinder. As for longitudinal or transverse with multis, meaning more than twin, inline was longitudinal ala Henderson, ACE, Schwinn, and Indian, until the Trident/Rocket and Honda Four with transverse cranks and cylinders at which time inline changed from longitudinal to transverse. Outliers do not change the usage. Wiki can be really undependable.)

  • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

    Carlos, the story is now on their website. The photographer deleted the photographs both times. According to the editorial written by Duan, the paper recovered the photos as soon as he got back to the office.

    It’s funny though–none of the photographs were apparently published, instead using approved photographs that were taken on base.

    You were right, they did roll over and play dead. I also wrote a blog entry on it at excoplawstudent.wordpress.com.

  • Carlos_Miller

    Thanks, I just updated this story with a link to your post.

  • rick

    Your comment was removed. What was it?

  • Bridgett Cash

    That she brings your girlfriend into this shows she really has no legit argument. Whoever called her a bitch was right on. Cunt? Not sure yet but she sure does seem like a royal bitch in need of some serious growing up.

  • rick

    Instead of updating (should be [UPDATE III]) make it a separate post highlighting the issues.
    Like too many mainstream media outlets, MCW unquestioningly bowed to the authority in public space, willingly deleted their pictures or were threatened with deletion, did not know the law, and in the end wrote a puff piece basically saying, “This happened… oh well! What can you do?”

  • steveo

    Most of the media outlets in Nazi Germany supported Hitler. Most of the media outlets in Venezuela still support the dead guy. Just because they have a rag doesn’t make them meaningful.

  • Cory

    I think it should be said that we can disagree without name calling and nastiness. After all, the person who has to result to name calling is really showing that they have already lost the argument. On the other hand, that does not mean that we shy away from standing on principle. People have to stand up for their rights. If nobody does then we won’t have any. I think this editor and her boss should be more concerned about the way their guy was treated and the infringement on their rights under the 1st amendment than on the way a reader disagreed with them. They deserve to be dressed down for not supporting the legal exercise of our rights and should have to answer why and should be pressed until they do. Shame on them and the Navy for stepping on the 1st amendment. They should all know better.

  • Difdi

    Well of COURSE you have the right to use your freedom of speech to say exactly what they want to hear. It’s what the right exists for, after all. Saying you have a right to be offensive is just crazy talk.

    I can’t stand hypocrites.

  • Brieana

    For real. I don’t understand how people can call themselves a great journalist, when what they are writing, sound condescending. Just because you have an opinion, doesn’t mean you are right, or wrong about it, and that goes for everyone.

  • Quincy Bones

    I lol’d.

  • Haeshu

    The morons that make up the mainstream media are exactly why this problem of photography arrests is as bad as it is. It is outrageous that several times every week, Carlos posts a story about someone with a camera doing something totally legal that gets arrested and that no one in the mainstream media seems to care.
    I think it is true that we all need to be in bondage with a dictator telling us what he wants us to do before we can effect change. We need a litany of non-sensical laws and an oppressive tyrant to bring people to get to say, “Hey this sucks and needs to change.”
    I weep for the future.

  • jch9596

    It floors me that a newspaper photog would willingly delete his own pictures because he was told to. I don’t care if they were able to retrieve them, I’m not doing that myself. They would have to arrest me first. Hell, I have trouble deleting inferior shots of my card in camera even when I know I took a much better version that is also on my card.
    I have, in fact, been told to delete my video (I shoot stills for myself, but was a photojournalist for TV shooting video) and I replied with a stern and steady, “No, sir. We can discuss whether I have the right to air this video, but I am not deleting it.” A fellow photog told me when he was told to turn over his tape, he thought about it for a quick minute… and then actually turned over the tape. The cameras we used back then shot both DV tape and P2 card and we all kept a tape in just in case we needed it. The photog had shot every thing on P2 and essentially turned over an unused tape. Upon hearing this, our boss smiled really big and suggested that was an appropiate response.of the shooters from a compet

  • steveo

    speech is protected as long as the speech is not “fighting words”. An example would be “I’m going to kick your butt” or “If you come over here, I’ll smash your face in” . Larry Flynt proved and was vindicated by the SCOTUS for using the c word, the c word is objectionable to me, but it is not a fighting word. Larry actually called Sandra Day O’Connor the c word to her face in the courtroom was cited for contempt and that was withdrawn the next day. He called the other justices 8 assholes.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    Don’t disagree. Didn’t consider it libel, but since written, it isn’t slander either.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    And I sorely miss him. He was a good counterweight.

  • RaymondbyEllis

    Because they don’t want absolute equality, they want qualified equality, where they set the qualifications. And those qualifications will always be in their favor, while being equal. Some are more equal than others, but that doesn’t mean all aren’t equal. Oh, wait..

  • Dave Laws

    I’ve never seen a more angry lesbian than Mary Duan, seriously, what is her malfunction?

  • Fotaugrafee

    I think that was the point, knob-gobbler. :D

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