July 10th, 2013

Georgia Deputies Arrest Man for Video Recording, then Harass him for Speaking to Media 135

By Carlos Miller

 

Georgia deputies not only unlawfully arrested a man who was video recording from a public sidewalk, they blatantly harassed him as he was being interviewed by a local television crew about the initial incident.

Unfortunately, neither the news crew nor any local lawyers interviewed were able to publicly state what we can all see in these videos.

That the Richmond County Sheriff’s Office is doing nothing more but abusing their power through sheer intimidation tactics.

It started on June 2 when Matthew Haley was standing on a street corner video recording cars rolling through a stop sign.

He was approached by two deputies who demanded his identification because they found him suspicious.

But Haley refused to provide identification on the basis that he was not doing anything that would give them reasonable suspicion that he was committing a crime (other than holding his phone vertically as he records).

They quickly snatched the phone from him and arrested him on obstructing charges, even though they were the ones obstructing his First Amendment right to video record from a public street.

Then on July 4, as he was interviewed by a reporter from WRDW-TV in Augusta, deputies marched up to him and demanded his identification, even though it is not against the law to talk to reporters.

Click here to see video and read story.

But the television reporters were apparently confused about this, so they sought out answers from lawyers, including one who stated that police have the right to question you, but you also have the right to walk away if they are not legally detaining you.

Other attorneys said it boils down to a “case-by-case basis to be decided by the courts.”

None of the lawyers were able to give a specific answer about this particular case where it was obvious the deputies unlawfully arrested him, then harassed him, for the sole reason that he was not afraid to assert his rights in not providing his identification if he was not being suspected of a crime.

WRDW-TV then gave Richmond County Sheriff Sgt. Michael McDaniel the platform to state that they were merely harassing Haley for safety reasons in order to prevent another Boston Marathon bombing or Sandy Hook shooting, neither which involved any of the culprits video recording beforehand.

Perhaps we should set the Richmond County Sheriff’s Office straight on the law through their Facebook page. Or you can just call them at (706) 821-1000.


Send stories, tips and videos to Carlos Miller.
  • Dirtbag Surfer

    Wow. Super clear violation and that police spokesman just dug a hug hole for that department. His ridiculous explanation is laughable, at best, and clearly demonstrated that they violated this guys rights to no end.They were dead wrong in arresting this guy for anything, let alone the go to obstruction. I am surprised that when they were handcuffing him that they didn’t start yelling stop resisting, the second most bogus charge this thugs bring against civilians when they are violating their rights. Great video and great story, not sure why other attorneys couldn’t be so lame to say that it’s case by case, when it is clearly not.

    • prariegirl

      Yes, the Attorneys were certainly lame. Case by Case basis, up to the courts, what kind of Attorneys did they call? If this does go to court as a violation of civil rights, lets all hope the judge throws it out and doesn’t back the cops. That may be wishful thinking in light of decisions on recent cases. As for the cops? Blatant bullying and violation of the Constitution. I think the people doing these videos are great and I thank them. We cannot just turn our heads to this as it is more and more frequent. The “terrorist” word is being used more and more these days. They say they want to protect us from terrorists, but what about Boston? Huge failure on US gov’t part when they had been informed about those guys. To say nothing of 911…in the name of protecting us, they are taking away our rights.

      • Dirtbag Surfer

        Exactly! And how many terrorists attacks have there been on police stations since 911? I would venture a wild guess and go with probably *zero*. It takes a psychotic amount of cop hubris to play the possible maybe victim of a maybe possibly sometime in the unknown future stake out and the commission of a terrorist act on their HQ. Making their fear even more irrational and patently absurd, such an act would hardly be orchestrated by some cat on an public sidewalk with a fricking iPhone. Of course, if you aren’t with them, you’re against them :)

        Now back to what was going to be my original analogy, before I went a bit off the tracks, since 911 how many cops have violated the rights of our fellow citizens as this video shows, have committed beatings, murders and rapes? The numbers are nearly incalculable…*

        • Difdi

          Depends. If you consider 911 to be an act of terror, then there are hundreds of such acts each day on every big city police department.

          Or did you mean 9/11? =P

        • Proud GrandPa

          There would have been many by the Mohammedans, but LEOs and the FBI etc. stopped them. One big 911 type was prevented.
          .
          As for other Mohammedan terror attacks outside the USA, we have tragic proof daily in the news. Thank the LORD for law enforcement.
          .

          • Proud GrandPa

            Of course LEOs can and do enforce the law while respecting human rights. When some failed to respect rights as in this video then they need to be corrected and things set right.

          • Barking Dog

            He’s dreaming…

          • steveo

            leos over the last 40 years have become militarized. They see anyone outside of the praetorian class as the “enemy”, and that attitude is getting worse, not better.

          • Barking Dog

            Nonsense. It wasn’t Arabs that did WTC and the Eff Bee Eye stopped nothing, including Boston.

            But they did stop somebody from asking who the Craft International guys at the finish line were and what were they doing there, as seen on a You Tube video of a press conference about the Marathon bombing..

            It isn’t Syrians fighting the Syrian govt, it’s the same crew of spooks. I don’t know where you get your intel but it looks like you’ve swallowed the big baloney.

            Wave that flag high!.

          • Proud GrandPa

            http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/2013/02/25/two-christians-beheaded-in-new-jersey-by-muslim-man-media-silent/

            .

            Authorities in New Jersey allege a Muslim man beheaded two Coptic Christians, burying their bodies and heads and hands in separate graves near Philadelphia, bringing the horror of the persecution of Christians in Islamic nations to the United States.
            .
            Thank the LORD for law enforcement. Otherwise the Mohammedans would bring murder for Mohammed here to the USA.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Let’s continue to talk about the USA, not foreign countries and not Arabs. The murders on 911 were the work of Mohammedans. They are freedom’s enemy.

            .

            And the police have stopped Mohammedans from repeating a 911 scale murder. That commands great respect. LEOs have my admiration for that. I honor them.

            .
            Feel free to read for yourself in the link above. And you may want to web search Dearborn for an update on free speech in America when Mohammedans contral a city in … Michigan!
            .
            We won in court in Michigan, and it took several years. The fight was worth it. The same tactics can work for photography too.
            .

          • Fotaugrafee

            And tell us, what does Christianity do for our freedoms in America?

            Most of the sheeple who “love the Lawdy Geezus” are also the same types that think people like Carlos are confrontational (i.e. YOU) and think he should stand down when bogusly ordered to do something that is completely within his rights.

          • Fotaugrafee

            As they should. You goddamn Christians reign terror on this country every fucking day with your anti-gay and anti-abortion protests (not to mention lobbying and legislation). You deserve to be be-headed. The only place religion has in this country is in YOUR HOME. Keep it there, or be subject to the barbarianism of other religions. There’s a fucking reason why they’re fighting a HOLY WAR in the Middle East.

          • Tony Loro

            Last I checked my taxes provided law enforcement not the Lord.

          • Proud GrandPa

            According to the Bible, government is ordained by God. Messiah commands us to pay taxes and be honest. He did not advocate killing the Romans who put him to death. In fact he showed mercy on the Roman who Peter wounded.
            .
            Apostle Paul formerly Saul commands us to honor those in authority over us. That includes police. I honor them… and pay taxes.
            .
            Thank the LORD for law enforcement.

          • Herbert Napp

            God you are the worst blight on this site. Just stop.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Freedom of speech…
            .
            Our Christian founding fathers enshrined freedom of speech and freedom of religion in the first amendment. I will continue to answer questions about how faith influences behavioral choices, when asked by others here as is the case in this part of the thread.
            .
            You may not like what I say, but you cannot stop me. I am an American.
            .

          • Dave Engh

            A good number of our Founding Fathers were not Christian. Many were deist (they believed in *a* god, not an overtly Christian version) or atheist. And their version of freedom of religion included all faiths, including that of the “Mohammedans” as you describe them.

          • Fotaugrafee

            Isn’t that the most ignorant fucking thing you’ve heard someone call a practicioner of Islam? I feel so vindicated when I can call his “GOD” the Lawdy Geeblus.

          • BusPass

            I was reading your posts and thinking “this guy is losing it,” but then I read this post and I realized I was wrong…you’ve lost it.

            God does not ordain genocide, or the slaughter of millions of unborn babies. He does not ordain the gassing of millions of Jews. He does not ordain deceit and lies.
            A man of logic will know that God does not ordain all gov’t, and that He does not approve of the laws of man which contradict the laws of God.

            When it comes to modern law enforcement, there is nothing to be thankful for. Absolutely nothing.

          • Proud GrandPa

            My experience with both faith and law enforcement personnel lead me to the opposite conclusion from yours. Maybe I am naturally optimistic but I believe your will find that LEOs in the USA and western democracies are the finest in the world. I do not see evidence that their mindset is like that of the holocaust makers or of the modern jihadists. True faith is a moral good and positive force for life. False religion is an immoral evil and leads to death. Just my thoughts in response to yours…
            .
            When the Apostle wrote that God ordained respect for authorities who were those authorities? They were Roman invaders who could murder any Jew or other non-Roman citizen any time. Messiah Himself did not resist the Roman authorities, but he said to go the second mile beyond what is required to help them. And John the Baptist told Roman soldiers to be honest, not to quit the army.
            .
            I believe God has good and moral people in many positions of authority including law enforcement. That is why people like myself can be thankful for modern law enforcement.
            .

          • BusPass

            This simple-minded interpretation of scripture is what drives people to mock it.

            You need to learn the difference between the individual vs. the collective gov’t and the ordained servants of God vs. the non-ordained gov’t institutions.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Excellent! A thoughtful reply. I could be mistaken in my interpretation of scripture. I don’t care if people mock it etc. That also is free speech and I respect their freedom to express disagreement. Let the dialog continue.
            .
            I know what you mean about the collective vs individual responsibilities. Some people mix the two to apply personal non-violence to gov’t and law enforcement. I don’t.
            .
            What did you have in mind as pertaining to this forum? Curious, because you sound as if you have thought about how personal values and political human rights interweave.

          • LibertyEbbs

            “…LEOs in the USA and western democracies are the finest in the world. I do not see evidence that their mindset is like that of the holocaust makers or of the modern jihadists.”

            Read: That’ll never happen here.

          • theaton

            So a human wrote that God ordained respect for authorities, not God himself? You do realize that humans are falible right?

          • Fotaugrafee

            “True faith” is also “blind faith”, regardless if you believe so or not.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            —-God does not ordain genocide

            Um…..

            And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them. Deuteronomy 7:2

            Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
            Deuteronomy 13:15

          • Joseph Murray

            Actually in the Old Testament ‘The Lord’ ordered the slaughter of innocents on a regular basis, as well as the enslavement and rape of defeated peoples. OT god was a bloodthirsty bastard.

          • BusPass

            Actually…that has nothing to do with this.

          • Voice-Of-Concern

            The funny thing is, that I, as an atheist also have access to Law Enforcement. And thanking what I believe to be complete fiction, makes no sense to me. Your milage may vary.

          • Proud GrandPa

            That is equality under the law–another right honored by our Constitution. And you also have a duty to obey the law. The responsibilities and rights apply equally to all faiths in America, unlike in former atheist Soviet nations or current Mohammedan countries.

            .

            Let us agree to obey the law and respect one another’s basic human rights. That’s something we can agree upon.

            .

          • n4zhg

            This is the voice of a willing slave.

          • Proud GrandPa

            I truly enjoy life. This is the good life and my wife and I are fortunate. I love my God and family. This is my free choice confirmed by decades of living. I see the wisdom of my choice. This does not feel like slavery to me. I am an American and a Christian. Permit me to celebrate enjoying the best of both worlds!

          • Fotaugrafee

            Maaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!

          • Jason Caz

            That is a terrible… terrible reason. The messiah commands us to pay taxes??? What in gods name are you smoking? Crack cocaine is illegal for a reason…

            “Ahh yes, I am god, the all seeing, omnipotent, creator of the universe. Pay yo taxes and stuff!”

            Err… yea… because ethereal beings really give a flying spaghetti monster f*&# about human-made money.

            …and yet, I want to just somehow reason that you were trying to be funny, or sarcastic, or something. ANYTHING… as you couldn’t possibly believe this…

          • Proud GrandPa

            I am amused. Does it surprise you that a well-educated, intelligent person who is successful in life and marriage, a property owner, debt free, living a healthy lifestyle, and never been arrested would have deep religious faith? Does it surprise you that a person of faith would seek to apply that to how he lives including honoring the wishes of his Messiah?
            .
            While I don’t share your non-theistic views, you have my respect as a human being and I honor your rights to disagree. Enjoy free speech, Jason.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            “As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence.” Luke 19:26-27

            “Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her
            mother-in-law” Matthew 10:34-35

            “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one…” Luke 22:36

            All word of Jesus – hardly non-violent.

          • Fotaugrafee

            I took a shit that looked like Jesus today. I was half inclined to fish it out & take it some museum, maybe win a gazillion dollars, but I thought…ahhh, it’s just another fairy tale religious figure who people blindly follow & sing their praises to, all while raping freedoms from people (in the US) in his name.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            In 2001, there were 21 terrorist attacks. With the exception of the one on September 11th, they were all done by Right-Wing Christian militias or ELF.

            Abortion clinic bombings

            Oklahoma City

            Repeated death threats on atheists who attempt to assert their right to not be forced to take part in religious ceremonies

            The Army of God

            Hutaree

            Christian Identity

            The Centennial Olympic Park bombing

            Anders Behring Breivik

            Manmasi National Christian Army

            National Liberation Front

            The Lord’s Resistance Army

            The Klu Klux Klan

          • Proud GrandPa

            None of these are right wing Christians… in fact none are Christian at all with the exception of abortion clinics which are rejected by the leaders of the right wing Christian movement.
            .
            Nice try, but you have to make up fake movements like these to smear the good Christian people. Contrast that with the majority of the Mohammedans who literally believe in killing to stop freedom of speech for other faiths.
            .
            Your list does not include American Christians. But you can get dozens of recent examples of Mohammedan acts of terror.
            .

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Several of those are American Christians (the Klu Klux Klan is extremely American, as is Oklahoma City, as is Centennial park, and while Christian Identity isn’t only American, it certainly does exist in America. BTW, I forgot to put the Westboro Baptists on the list), and none of those are made up, which a brief use of Google would have shown you. You’ve now been thoroughly exposed as a hypocrite and a liar. I guess you are a Christian after all.

            There is also the AFA, which was formed precisely to limit free speech.

          • Fotaugrafee

            Yes, including PORN, which is protected for the most part. If you don’t care to watch it, change the fucking channel.

          • Fotaugrafee

            Of course they’re not affiliated with Christianity…BECAUSE THEY MAKE YOU LOOK BAD!!! That’s why. You only embrace the “good PR”, don’t you?

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            All of those espouse that they are Christian.

            If you get to claim that Muslim extremists are in fact Muslim, you are being hypocritical to deny that Christian extremists are in fact Christian.

          • Fotaugrafee

            Dat’s right Cleetus, praise to po-po!!! They’s gonna saaaaave us, cuz the lawdy gawd ain’t goin’sta allows no harm for his sheeple.

        • Barking Dog

          There have been attacks, maybe even calling them terrorist attacks. Guys snap and shoot up police stations all the time

          Google “shooting up a police station” and you’ll see Detroit, LA, NJ, Southfiled….

          • Proud GrandPa

            Mohammedans kill because they don’t allow freedom of speech and freedom of religion. We the people are their target because we are Christians, Jews, atheists, pagans, Buddhists, Hindus, and moderate peaceable Moslems. Mohammedans hate and fear us because we are tolerant of other who differ with us.
            .
            This is why America is such a target. We protect religious diversity–something no Mohammedan following the Koran dares to do.
            .

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            So what about the Christians who kill and also don’t allow freedom of speech and freedom of religion? Why do the Christians hate and fear those who are different? Why are Christians so intolerant?

            No, America does not protect religious diversity, as your own posts indicate.

          • Proud GrandPa

            What Christians are they? I know of stories from the ‘old country’ of medieval Europe and the Holy Roman Empire. I don’t consider that Christian. Nor do I consider the current persecutions by state churches against independent Christians to be persecution by Christians. These state churches are false Christians… the dead state churches in Russia and Greece etc. are not Christian.
            .
            So let us find Christians who don’t allow freedom of speech. When I find some, I’ll let you know. It is a true statement that the nations with the most freedom of speech and freedom of faith are also the most evangelical and Protestant. Look at northern Europe and the USA versus Mohammedan lands. I’ll credit Christian faith for free speech. The USA and northern Europe are the best example of free speech for the world.
            .
            Meanwhile let’s use our freedom of speech here in America where our Christian founding fathers enshrined freedom of speech and freedom of religion in the constitution. And rejoice that America protects religious diversity.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            I’d like to introduce you to Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Pat Robertson, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Rick Santorum, the Republican Party, and your mirror.

            You, for example, have a serious problem with Muslims speaking and practicing their religion. The above listed have a similar problem with folks like oh, Muslims, Blacks, Atheists, and Women speaking.

            Many Christians are in direct opposition to the first amendment and have on multiple occasions attempted to pass laws forbidden non-Christians from having freedom of religion and freedom

            of speech.

            Major example? The Christian opposition to gay marriage.

            The US does not promote religious diversity. Hi, asshole, I’m an atheist. It is legal to discriminate against me. In some states, there are actually still laws on the books preventing me from running for public office. If I object to being forced to take part in a prayer activity in order to engage with my local government / attend public school and school activities / gain a military promotion, I will be vilified, threatened, and harassed, as will my friends and family. I will be the victim of vandalism and other retaliation. I will be called an ‘evil little thing’ for daring to use my freedom of speech.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Dear Withinetc.

            To the best of my knowledge the stellar cast of luminaries you cited have never murdered anyone. Only Mohammedan terrorists do. BTW–Thanks for including ProudGrandPa among the heroes!

            .

            No true American patriot has any problem with our Muslims or Buddhists or Jews or cultists or pagans or fellow Messianic Christians or fellow Gentile Christians who speak and practice their religion. This is America… land of the free and that includes freedom of speech and freedom of religion.
            .
            America protects religious diversity. I celebrate that liberty in America.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind
          • Proud GrandPa

            You falsely accused Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Pat Robertson, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Rick Santorum, the Republican Party, and your mirror etc. of censoring free speech and freedom of religion. So far you are the only one attempting to do so.
            .

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Liar.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Your definition of ‘hero’ and mine apparently differ considerably. So, apparently, do our definitions of ‘truth’, ‘freedom’ and ‘diversity’.

            http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/culture_war/the_american_taliban.html

            One that should have made the list, but didn’t:

            It would be a much better country if women did not vote. That is simply a fact. In fact, in every presidential election since 1950 – except Goldwater in ’64 – the Republican would have won, if only the men had voted. – Ann Coulter

            But please, continue pretending Fred Phelps and his ilk do not exist. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps). He is as much a Christian as anyone else who claims to be a Christian.

          • Proud GrandPa

            To the best of my knowledge the views you mentioned are protected free speech. Goldwater, Fred Phelps, and other conservatives do not censor free speech. You are wrong.

            .

            You falsely accused Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Pat Robertson, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Rick Santorum, the Republican Party, and your mirror etc. of censoring free speech and freedom of religion. So far you are the only one attempting to do so.
            .
            Let the free speech roll on… for everyone. Free speech–It’s not just for atheists!
            .

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Actually, I directly quoted them advocating for the censoring of free speech, and cited directly how they oppose freedom of religion. You’ve now been thoroughly exposed as a hypocrite and liar. I guess you are a Christian after all.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Withhin wrote:
            “I will be vilified, threatened, and harassed, as will my friends and family. I will be the victim of vandalism and other retaliation. I will be called an ‘evil little thing’ for daring to use my freedom of speech”
            ProudGrandPa:
            I do not and will not vilify, threaten, or harass you. I will speak to defend your rights just as I have done in the past by speaking to my fellow believers on behalf of the free speech rights of those who disagree with us. I am sorry that others claiming to be people of faith have done so to you in the past. If I could I would speak to them and speak on behalf of your civil rights and urge them to show due respect to you as a fellow human being.
            .
            I honor your freedom of speech and do not call you or anyone unkind names. Let the free speech and free photography continue!
            .

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Liar.

          • malasangre

            Uganda

          • Fotaugrafee

            You sound like every other Hee-Haw dumb hick Christian in this country talking shit about a religion in which you know absolutely nothing about.

  • rick

    In the vane of It’s A Wonderful Life, “every time the police violate your first amendment rights a lawsuit gets filed!”

    • Difdi

      Wouldn’t that be more of a ‘devil gets his horns’ situation than angels getting wings?

  • Andrew Ogiba

    Brown vs. Texas. Enjoy your 1983 claim!

  • Radish

    The McDaniel statement could be useful in a civil action as it suggests a departmental policy of arresting people for refusing to answer questions. Municipal liability under section 1983 requires the plaintiff to prove a policy or practice within the department.

  • Peaceful Streets

    Coward cops who are afraid of cameras and accountability cross the line once again … and no “good cops” cross the thin blue line to protect the victim.

    • Difdi

      “If you have nothing to hide, what are you afraid of?” is equally good for geese and ganders.

    • Proud GrandPa

      In this case there were only two cops on the scene. Had there been other cops present, they could have intervened. There are plenty of examples of good cops respecting human rights.
      .
      You can find these videos if you search for them.

      • Barking Dog

        “if you search for them”

        If there are so many you shouldn’t need to search them. Show me 2 examples please.

        This is what I did for 30 years and it’s hard to find, so off hand I’d say you’re full of it

      • Herbert Napp

        I’ve seen them, they are good. The thing is, every single day I wake up and check PoliceStateUSA and almost -every single day- theres ~1-3 new videos where I see militarized thugs (who probably can’t even fucking shoot properly) harassing innocent citizens and pissing on the constitution.

        • Proud GrandPa

          Okay, Herb, you’ve got my attention. Would you list several websites you believe it would be helpful for others on this forum to check? I promise I will view the sites you feel are best..
          .
          PoliceStateUSA is now on my list along with PINAC.
          .
          Thanks, Mr Napp

          • Herbert Napp

            “Truth be Known” is another FB group that is worth watching. This site is also good: http://beatyourselfup.com/ . A lot of it will be redundant, but you will know about it before the incident gets big if at all. Talk to me in two weeks after watching these pages/sites.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Yes, I am reading your two websites daily or almost daily. Thanks again.

          • malasangre

            Cato Institut, Police Misconduct.. Brought to you by Koch Bros

  • Phillip

    The only way this is an actual ‘crime’ is if Georgia has ‘compel to identify’ laws as many states do. MS has such a law which forces the individual to identify themselves to a leo if the officer asks the person to identify themselves, producing identification if they have it on them. If this gentleman were to leave his ID in his vehicle he would not be forced to produce ID but would still be under a legal obligation to identify himself if asked by a law officer. In a state without such a law one can simply remain silent or whatever as case law is on the side of the innocent/accused relative to not being compelled to ID one’s self if one isn’t suspected of a crime. In either situation the standard ‘am I being detained’ question is handy, however it’s of little protection in a ‘compel to ID’ state.

    An aside to this is I wonder what would happen in a state with compel to ID laws if one fought it in court, would higher courts find it unconstitutional? I think there’s a chance they would but it is such a crap shoot to even get a hearing at the district level.

    • Guest

      “compel to identify’

      Still requires reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed.

      • Difdi

        Not in every state. Some have statutes where you MUST identify yourself if asked by a police officer.

        • http://421a.douglasavenue.com Erin Winking

          Sounded like he did identify himself. His name is Matthew.

          • Difdi

            Sounded like he didn’t meet the minimum requirements of a self-identification. Full name and date of birth identifies you, a first name by itself does not.

        • hazy

          The state(Nevada) that every other state has used(under Hibel V. Nevada) to legitimize stop & id statutes even has under the code that the officer should at least have reasonable suspicion before demanding ID.

          • Difdi

            Being informed that a felony is being committed creates that reasonable suspicion unless the report is plainly wrong. And even then, it should be investigated.

        • steveo

          All 50 states require a RAS of imminent threat or crime that has been committed. Otherwise, leos could just park themselves on a sidewalk and stop everyone and ask for ID and ck for warrants basically setup a sidewalk roadblock.

          • Barking Dog

            I took 2 pictures of Stop and Molest on the same block, 2 days apart. One was walking from the subway, a Mexican with a very clean shirt and a bewildered look as to why he was stopped. Looked like a worker on his way home. In the daylight, looked like a family man

            The other shot is a guy walking along and listening to a radio. In the daylight. Stop and Frisk is just another way of saying “Lets get that guy and go thru his pockets, I don’t like his style”

            Had it happen to me.Called all around after and got the usual until I mentioned the Eff Bee Eye. Then they started calling me sir.

            3 months ago, a cop ran up and just shoved his hand in my coat pocket, pulling out my radio and taking a picture of it, and my face. Later when asked he claimed “freedom of the press” when asked about the legality of it.

            I’d love to show you but he stole the memory card…

          • steveo

            Man, that NYC copwatching is hard core. It’s like the Marines at Guadalcanal. Those leos don’t give a shit what they do.

          • Proud GrandPa

            , but the court found that this was just not believable when looking at the numbers when less than 1% are arrested and less than .25 or 1 percent actually have weapons.
            .
            Excellent, Steveo. I knew it to be true, and am impressed by such a wide margin.
            .

          • Difdi

            There may have been RAS, depending on what the woman with the dog said to the 911 dispatcher, and what the dispatcher told police.

            “There’s a man taking pictures of animals on the beach” would produce different results than “There’s a pedophile here stalking children with a camera.”

            Both describe photography, but one would result in police having RAS to investigate.

          • Voice-Of-Concern

            On what legal or medical basis are people being diagnosed from afar, of pedophilia? Even an affirmative diagnosis of pedophila does not constitute RAS of ANY crime. Philia of every sort only describes to what a person is sexually attracted. But mere attraction is not an action, much less a criminal action. There is no crime here.

            And, openly taking photos and or video, in public is also perfectly legal. There is no crime here.

            No crime + no crime = no crime. No crime = no RAS.

            I do not know how i can make this any simpler.

  • http://421a.douglasavenue.com Erin Winking

    The closest thing Georgia has to a must identify law is their ‘loitering’ law. OCGA §16-11-36(a)(b).

    (a) A person commits the offense of loitering or prowling when he is in a place at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals under circumstances that warrant a justifiable and reasonable alarm or immediate concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity.

    (b) Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether alarm is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon the appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstances make it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this Code section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself and explain his presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this Code section if the law enforcement officer failed to comply with the foregoing procedure or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person was true and would have dispelled the alarm or immediate concern.

    • steveo

      GA law on loitering is the same as FL, but in order for loitering to exist the subject of the investigation has to pose an imminent threat to public safety. But he wasn’t arrested for loitering, he was arrested for obstruction. In FL, this charge wouldn’t even be filed by the State Attorney for this incident because there is no well-founded reasonable articulate suspicion that the subject is about to commit a crime or has committed a crime and that was even voiced by the leos. In order for obstruction to exist, the defendant has to obstruct a lawful execution of a legal duty and in almost all cases not by words alone.

      These leos in GA seem to be a bit behind the times and are having a hard time grasping common law on this subject, probably because they never get any blow back from people they arrest or the courts.

      All this said, I’d still give them my name, you don’t have to do the dob or address thing, but since we are “journalists”, it’s probably in our best interest to let the public know who we are.

      • Barking Dog

        He wasn’t loitering, he was talking to the news…

        • steveo

          obviously, but according to wikipedia’s stop and ID page, leos apparently use the loitering statute as their authority to stop and ID anyone they want to. Maybe, maybe not, but these leos seem to believe that it is a violation of some law for a citizen to refuse to give ID upon request, so they would be better off charging the person with loitering/prowling, rather than obstruction because you can’t obstruct a legal process unless there is a lawful legal process. Just going up to someone and asking for ID without a RAS is not a lawful legal process.

          • Levi Dietrich

            This is exactly what The Person Behind their FB is saying to me, below you can find our exchange

  • Butterbean

    I’m from this area and can attest to the fact they literally get away with murder. The week this happened the same department tased a man to death. I once got arrested by them for not providing id when their only suspicion was “the officer saw me outside speaking to someone who thought was causing trouble”. Arrested me for interfering with a Sherrif’s deputy.

  • Tijuana Joe

    They need suspicion of a crime to force the ID.Then they manufacture
    an “obstruction” offense so there’s a crime. I think I get it now.
    Self-delusion and authority are a toxic blend.

  • donnie harold harris

    Sue Sue sue them….Till they lose there grounding.Enough lawsuits will do this quit well.

  • steveo

    At this point, 6 or 7 years after Carlos’ first arrest, I’m not sure who is winning the war on copwatching. I know we are winning the overwhelming majority of battles because the prosecutors are not prosecuting any of these arrests, but it doesn’t seem to stop the leos from interfering with the 1st Amendment rights of citizen journalists. Like I said a few months ago, I expected more and more of these encounters to materialize rather than fewer.

    Until there are some sanctions by the leos in charge, this will probably go on forever.

    • Voice-Of-Concern

      Google Glass & Similar devices are going to be what kills this “arrest anyone with a camera” meme. The cameras will be wearable, streaming to the cloud & part of the crowd.

      And the thing is, as they are not JUST camera’s, but wearable computers, they are likely to be password protected, as well as encrypted

      I can already hear the thunder of the hoofbeats that will be the stampede of wearable cameras everywhere. It’s not here yet, but it IS coming.

    • Proud GrandPa

      Steveo,
      Allow me to encourage you. In the area of street evangelism and university evangelism and political protests, there have been many victories. Almost never do we get blocked for filming anymore. And that filming keeps LEO on our side now in protecting our speech and assembly rights. They know we are recording.
      .
      Of course we are organized and have lawyers who donate pro bono time eagerly awaiting the chance to help. I believe the same thing will happen for photo rights as for religious rights and religious free speech rights, open carry rights, and political rights.
      .
      May I suggest photogs work in teams and have lawyers ready. Better why not be preemptive? Many speakers have found it best to meet with the Chief of Police or of campus police the day before speaking. A little sugar vs. a gallon of vinegar is true.

      • Barking Dog

        What is this guy smoking? Ever work the streets? It seems a little different than how you describe it.

        Are you in Mayberry? BTW, today’s NYPD officer arrested is for raping a 14 year old. I’m sure he was on his way to help humanity after the rape

        • Proud GrandPa

          I share your pain.

          .

          Anyway, please stick to the issues. I know from scores of years of experience that this works. We won our rights.

          .
          Consider this again–

          In the area of street evangelism and university evangelism and political protests, there have been many victories. Almost never do we get blocked for filming anymore. And that filming keeps LEO on our side now in protecting our speech and assembly rights.

  • JdL

    When cops aren’t actively murdering people, they’re demonstrating with ever-increasing blatancy what incredible cowards they are. Keep those examples coming, Carlos! Eventually some significant fraction of the populace is going to wake up to the realization of what dangerous criminals cops are today, and how worthless they are at doing the jobs we think we’re paying them for.

  • jch9596

    The comments under the news story are frightening. When poster said we should give up some rights in order to be safe. Which is ironic because the man was taping cars running a stop sign *right* beside the Sheriff’s Office.

  • Proud GrandPa

    I think we are all in consensus on this one. Based upon the two videos including official department official comments, the problem can be boiled down to this. The LEOs believed wrongly that the 911 murders somehow escalate a suspicious activity or unknown situation into a criminal investigation and that the criminal investigation requires citizens to identify themselves to police, possibly with physical documents.
    .
    We have debated the flaws in this logic elsewhere. The requirement to self-identify is not universal and the requirement to use physical documents is not universal either, especially when there is no evidence of a crime or when the suspect is not driving.
    .

    • Proud GrandPa

      This is a wonderful opportunity for LE to become better acquainted with the law. Expect a public apology and all LEOs in town to become Officer Friendly in exchange for dropping a possible law-suit. A win-win for all… if LE management is wise and if the victim is merciful.
      .

      • n4zhg

        Mercy? Fuck that. Cops see mercy as a license to do whatever they want. This shit will end when lawsuits are paid from pension and union funds and a direct garnishment from all department officers, not just the ones involved.

        If they want to be soldiers, they get to find out what fun group punishment can be.

        • Proud GrandPa

          I ignore trolls and posts with foul language. Stopped reading at word two.
          .
          If you want to be considered, clean it up or feel free to pass on this topic.

  • steveo

    Lawyers don’t like to try to explain RAS to anyone because probably unless they are criminal attorney’s they don’t know and even if they are it’s a complicated subject.

    RAS is less than probable cause, but more than a hunch and a totality of the circumstances and case law is reviewed to determine whether leos actually have a RAS or not. Just like in court, there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, next clear and convincing evidence, and the lowest standard of proof is a preponderance of the evidence. Clear as mud, right? So, what exactly is a RAS? It’s about as easy to explain as What is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, nobody has the same definition.

    Here, though, they didn’t have a RAS. That’s evident to everyone.

    • tkw072

      What’s RAS

      • Guest

        Reasonable articulable suspicion

    • tkw072

      I mean what does it stand for

    • Darksideblues42

      An example of Reasonably Articulable Suspicion (RAS) would be someone wearing something like a Trench-coat outside a convenience store in an area of high crime…In July…when the temp is 98 degrees out and loitering about until there are only a couple customers in the store.
      Similar to the justification listed in Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)

      Meaning that when all factors are considered, there is something suspicious about the behavior of the individual that goes beyond “I just wanted to check on you, see who you are”

      • steveo

        In NYC, in the Stop and Frisk trial, the leos cked off “furtive movement” over 50% of the time which accounted for over 1 million stops. The judge just found that “inchoate and unparticularized” and what Maxwell Smart would say, “You don’t believe furtive movement, well, how about…..”

  • Guest

    “We look at the what if. We look at the worst-case scenario and try to prepare for the worst-case scenario. We don’t know if he’s trying to find an escape for someone. These are things we have to look at,” said Richmond County Sgt. Michael McDaniel.

    “Once confronted by deputies, when you refuse to cooperate and answer any questions, you’re basically asking to be locked up,” McDaniel said.

    “I will uphold and support the Constitution of the United States.”

    Traitors!

    • steveo

      Yeah, this guy should try to learn a little law before trying to be a leo.

  • steveo

    Also, something we should understand about GA. GA, AL, MS all kind of; brought up the rear in the fight for civil rights in the 50’s and 60’s. Loitering, obstruction, vagrancy, and trespassing were favorite statutes of the leos and sheriffs to “keep their darkiees in line”.

    These police departments ignored federal laws and interpreted the State statutes the way they wanted to interpret them and alot of these old feelings and habits, die hard within the law enforcement community. GA, was the birthplace of the KKK. This videography can only be beneficial to the transparency of law and order in a community.

  • Tony Loro

    Want to do this stuff and stay out of jail join the NPPA. Buy the ID card and play it smarter.

    • Guest

      Thanks. What other cards and documents do I need to carry and show on command to stay out of jail?

      • steveo

        You might need the new travel permits because they always ask where you are going and where are you coming from. I guess I need their permission.

    • steveo

      That isn’t going to keep you out of jail, ask Mickey.

      • Barking Dog

        Yeah, Mickey O’s been writing letters after after every incident for 30 years and still they happen.

      • Tony Loro

        It’s the play it smarter that keeps you out of jail. If all you are doing is a 1st and 4th amendment show piece you don’t need anything. Leave your Id in the car. That way you dont lie to leo which is a crime. If you are seeking arrest by dumb cops to facilitate a suit and reducation of the locals go for it.

  • inquisitorX

    BLAM-BLAM-BLAM-BLAM!!!!!!
    There is my ID.

  • Levi Dietrich

    Here is My exchange via private message with Their Facebook person:

    Conversation started today

    7:37am

    Levi Dietrich

    Shame
    on Your department! Matthew Haley was Completely in the right and what
    he was doing IS NOT Illegal. Time and Time again This corrupt System of
    law enforcement Tramples all Over Citizens rights. It is Blatant
    Oppression. Filming In public has been ruled time and Time again By Many
    courts in many states To be Fully within The first amendment rights of
    Citizens. This Bullying and extortion of the police state needs to stop.
    Your department SHAMES law enforcement Country wide. You had NO
    business arresting, then subsequently harassing this man! Keep these
    horrible Civil rights violations Up, along with countless other Law
    enforcement Bully Tactics around this country and There WILL eventually
    be a boiling point. What LEO’s forget, is that they work for The people,
    and that piece of scrap metal only is Valid, as long as the PEOPLE say
    it does.

    7:48am

    Richmond County Sheriff’s Office – Georgia

    Thanks
    for your comments. He was not arrested for videotaping; he was asked
    what he was doing because it not only raised the suspicions of deputies
    but of citizens who brought it to the attention of deputies as well.
    Acting suspiciously in any government or high target building is not
    going to be completely ignored by law enforcement, nor should it be. If
    he were truly a “photo journalist” he could have simply stated that and
    showed is ID card to the deputies but instead he chose to break the law,
    in fact by his own admissions on web sites, he came with such intent.
    (a)
    A person commits the offense of loitering or prowling when he is in a
    place at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals
    under circumstances that warrant a justifiable and reasonable alarm or
    immediate concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity.

    (b) Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining
    whether alarm is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon
    the appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify
    himself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or any object.
    Unless flight by the person or other circumstances make it
    impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for
    an offense under this Code section, afford the person an opportunity to
    dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted
    by requesting the person to identify himself and explain his presence
    and conduct.
    Had he simply spoken with the officers and dispelled the
    cause for alarm due to his actions and behavior and properly identified
    himself as required by GA law, this would be a non-issue.

    8:16am

    Levi Dietrich

    you
    have NO RESPECT for the Fourth amendment. He was committing no crime.
    Yet his person was seized. LEOs absolutely can ask for ID but a person
    has the right to decline unless there is a suspicion of a crime. When he
    asked what crime he was suspected of, the officers could not answer
    that question. Also he told the officers what he was doing, yet they
    arrested him anyway. The most disgusting thing though was the subsequent
    harassment. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? A
    number of lawyers have commented on this case and they say YOUR
    DEPARTMENT was wrong on this. Law enforcement continues to lose
    credibility country wide due to Crooked laws enforced like the one you
    cited. Remember your OATH!

    8:48am

    Richmond County Sheriff’s Office – Georgia

    We
    respect but disagree with your opinion. The law is clearly posted
    above and during and investigation, ID can be required. Have a great
    day.

    Today

    12:16pm

    Levi Dietrich

    All
    I ask is That You guys are VERY aware of the growing Concern NATIONWIDE
    about the Expanding Militaristic police state. Increasing stories of
    Downright police brutality, and horrible mangling of the US constitution
    is going to lead to something Very bad Unless Various Law enforcement
    agencies wake up and check themselves. The worst part is Nobody can seem
    to touch so many very obviously Corrupted and Dirty agencies, so even
    with small fries things such as this, it has people up in arms, because
    No agency seems to care, or respect the US constitution. From Gross
    Violations of 1st amendment rights (Videotaping in Public) to Rulings
    that basically revoke the 5th amendment (recent ruling), to Agencies
    revoking the 4th amendment (stop and frisk) and Now in Nevada a horrible
    crushing of the 3rd amendment ( Nevada families house was forcibly
    occupied to use as a “stakeout” against families will,who by the way had
    absolutely nothing to do with the investigation) and last, but very
    disheartening, is cops shooting dogs for no reason (countless stories,
    many including well restrained, and/or service animals), and never
    getting in trouble. There is Something VERY disturbing happening all
    over this country, and when departments like yours, start in on some of
    the same horrible things, it ONLY adds FUEL to the Public outrage Fire.

    • Levi Dietrich

      more exchange:

      12:54pm

      Richmond County Sheriff’s Office – Georgia

      Levi,
      actual police corruption should be dealt with swiftly and severely. As
      for court rulings, etc. that is out of the control of law enforcement
      agencies, we must enforce the laws as they are written. However,
      putting out misinformation in order to enrage the public does nothing
      pro-active for our area or our Country. Of course there are bad cops,
      cops who make mistakes, etc. and they should be dealt with. However,
      the same goes for individuals who are purposefully trying to cause
      friction and create problems when none exist. Either way, we take the
      constitution and civil liberties very seriously and appreciate hearing
      various opinions and suggestions. Have a great day.

      1:10pm

      Levi Dietrich

      Your
      sheriffs, and Deputies, also have the power NOT to enforce
      UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws. Which your cited law obviously is
      Unconstitutional but those Thug officers in both cases, CHOSE to harass
      an innocent, and Unjustly Confiscate his Phone. 1st and 4th were
      violated in BOTH those scenarios, and thats the issue.

      1:10pm

      Levi Dietrich

      Actual corruption is rarely EVER dealt with beyond Paid Vacation

      Their
      Oath is First and Foremost, to the US Constitution, Then State
      constitution, Then the people, Then BS local ordinances. The US
      Constitution is The supreme Law of this land, Followed By state law
      (10th amendment for laws not otherwise delegated via US CONSTITUTION)…

      And even going on the law you cited, Those officers OBVIOUSLY warped it… PERIOD!

      1:25pm

      Levi Dietrich

      Excerpt
      from section (B) “Unless flight by the person or other circumstances
      make it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any
      arrest for an offense under this Code section, afford the person an
      opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would
      otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself and
      explain his presence and conduct.” He did Identify Himself,
      and what he was doing. He said hes recording the intersection to
      document issues happening, and later on he said his name was Mathew. Now
      the only way that that would be insufficient is if The officers were
      presuming he was already guilty of something, and if that’s the kind of
      conduct they display, they seriously need further training. Also what is
      being interpreted as suspicious in this situation (that is sitting in
      public filming, Though the officers couldn’t even cite the above law) Is
      entirely legal. there is just no Justifying these actions. You damn
      well know those officers acted poorly.

      • Levi Dietrich

        More of their nonsense:

        5:42pm

        Richmond County Sheriff’s Office – Georgia

        No
        court in the world would agree that someone stating their name is
        Matthew while refusing to provide ID is identifying oneself. Have a
        good one. The officers were polite, patient and were doing their jobs
        effectively.

        5:46pm

        Richmond County Sheriff’s Office – Georgia

        All
        of our officers are fully aware they may be video recorded, etc.
        However, when you begin to video govt. buildings, police cars, and
        secure areas with metal detectors, etc. and a call is received to
        investigate, the officers MUST do just that. If someone is offended or
        thinks they have the right not to be properly identified as part of the
        investigation, we have little choice in the matter other than detainment
        or arrest. We would be negligent if we simply let the individual leave
        without verifying his identity, etc.

        6:15pm

        Levi Dietrich

        and
        Once again, You say nobody is innocent until proven guilty. I have no
        issue with them stopping and checking it out, that is their Job (Of
        course the courts have ruled No Law enforcement agent is obligated to
        protect anyone) But its the actions afterward that have shown how messed
        up and abused your Loitering law is.

  • http://www.Ideacomark-la-tex.com stvjas

    wonder if the Police are expected to know a Citizens rights before they put on a Bagde?

  • Herbert Napp

    Libs Demos Cons Repubs join hands and get on the same page with 2A.

  • Ed

    It’s a pity that the KKK missed the dark cops ancestors.