July 20th, 2013

Facebook Page Dedicated to Dog Shot by Cops Bans Dog's Owner from Posting on Page (Updated II) 85

By Carlos Miller

Justice for Max cover page

 

This is not exactly photography related, but considering I was one of the first news sites to post the video of a California cop killing a dog while arresting its owner for video recording them, I wanted to provide this follow-up.

The story went completely viral, so a Facebook page went up called Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police that has 15,739 likes in less than a month, which is an astronomical number if you compare it to PINAC’s Facebook page that has 11,600 fans after two years.

The problem is, they’ve banned Max’s owner, Leon Rosby, from participating on that page as well as several of his friends.

Nevertheless, this is how they describe the page:

We’re a group demanding justice for Max, the innocent rottweiler, who was shot and killed by police when they arrested his owner for filming a situation from a public area (which is not illegal!!)

The debacle is being discussed on Rosby’s page where we became friends but he currently has set to only where his friends can read his content. I’ve asked him to switch the page to public so everybody can read for themselves because it’s a lengthy discussion on several threads.

But if you send him a friend request, he will accept.

The administrators of the other page refuse to identify themselves and may even be making money off the site, but that has not been determined. They’re claiming they’re only using Max’s name to benefit all dogs.

But they apparently accused Rosby of stealing their photo of Max, which was his photo in the first place. At least that’s what Rosby’s friends are saying.

The administrators are welcome to comment here and explain the situation and I will update this piece accordingly. I just don’t feel like dealing with anonymous people at the moment.

And friends of Leon on Facebook say he has trademarked Max’s name, so if so, then I imagine he can sue them for infringement.

Here are copy and pastes of the conversation we’re having on Facebook, which will help you understand the situation that I am still trying to piece together, starting with one from Rosby:

@ (Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police) I just read a comment from you guy’s once again and you said it’s not about me and Max but about all the animals that are abused. I agree to that somewhat. Now, if that’s the case use another name in stead of Justice for Max. The incident happen to us! I will get Facebook to deleted the page. I don’t feel that you guy’s are being truthful and up front with all the supporters. Justice 4 Max, it mean more than just getting someone to LIKE a PAGE! I would like to thank all the supporters that want JUSTICE FOR ME AND MAX……….
*****
  • Carlos Miller How long has this been going on?

    How many people have they blocked?
  • Carlos Miller What benefit are they getting out of this? Are they raising money?
  • Tamara Rivera Lots of ppl have been blocked exept for me cuz I said they can block me If they want for voicing my opinion.. but just shows how divided they are from the real cause. So they said they aren’t going to block me if I’m not rude…
  • Elizabeth Salz Leonelli This was their response to me yesterday: 2:35pm Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police
    “What you are not understanding, is we are under no obligation to contact him, nor give him the name of this page’s Manager (per Facebook TOS).”
  • Elizabeth Salz Leonelli I think the benefit they are getting is the “power” of having 15,000 listening to you & it’s a control issue. I think as many people as possible should message their big supporters & tell them what’s going on & to come over here.
  • Tamara Rivera I believe there’s someway she’s making money off of this page. If u dnt have time to tlk to maxs owner on the phone but have time to run the page…theres something fishy. She stated a bunch of times she’s a social media manager and she has tons of other pages…so someway she’s making money off of this, and that’s why she doesn’t want suggestions to help her page out with accurate and important info abt what’s going on with leon and his fight for justice 4 max. So with that said, we need to try and get everyone on one official page with leon as the admin like he is doing now. We need organization and we dnt need that page for anything!
    4 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1
  • Elle Wittelsbach I love when he said you stole his picture- wow! It’s a picture of YOUR dog. Whaaaa? sigh. If only this person would just post your official page link, you could have gotten 15,000 followers. I don’t get it- they are losing focus.
    4 minutes ago · Like · 1
  • Carlos Miller Which picture?
  • Elizabeth Salz Leonelli They’re not just losing focus, their turning against the very person & cause they made the page for! They won’t even communicate with him! It’s shameful!
  • Tamara Rivera Without leon and all his info from his supporters they wouldn’t have their page in the first place. They have my pic inside of their collage on their cover photo but u dnt see me upset lo

UPDATE:  The Justice for Max page also lists the following disclaimer that they are in no way affiliated to Max and his owner.

**Disclaimer: This page is in no way directly affiliated with or run by Max’s owner, Leon Rosby, or his legal team, though we may choose to post information that they have provided if deemed appropriate.

Please TAKE ACTION and JOIN THE FIGHT – sign the petitions below!Here is the WHITE HOUSE PETITION:https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/terminate-officer-jeffrey-salmon-hawthorne-police-department/1jyg1MvnHere is the CHANGE.ORG PETITION:http://www.change.org/petitions/police-unlawful-arrest-and-animal-brutality-prosecute-the-corrupted-hawthorne-copsWe want #JUSTICEforMAX, the innocent rottweiler owned by Leon Rosby, who was brutally murdered by officer Salmon of the Hawthorne Police department. Leon was practicing his constitutional right to photograph a situation from a public area (according to the ACLU:http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/know-your-rights-photographers), when he was arrested. He complied with the officers and put his dog, Max, back in his car before complying with the arrest. Unfortunately, because it was hot outside, the windows were down and the dog curiously jumped out of the car when his owner was being taken away. Instead of using alternative force, such as tackling, kicking, a baton, pepper spray, a taser, or anything else that the officer could have chosen besides his firearm, he made the CHOICE to use DEADLY FORCE against the dog, who was frightened and confused. Please join us in the fight for #JUSTICE!!

There doesn’t seem to be any monetary incentives on the site but on several posts throughout the page they state that the falling out with Rosby is because he has asked them to identify themselves and they refuse, which seems weird considering they are using Max’s name to promote  the cause they believe in.

After all, you can’t have Justice for Max without having justice for Rosby because not only was it his dog killed, but he was the one who was jailed for video recording cops.

Rosby, who is already immersed in a lawsuit with the Hawthorne Police Department, should get an even higher settlement because of this latest incident.

That other group is asking everybody to sign petitions with their real names yet they refuse to reveal their real names.

If that’s the case, then they should not use Max’s name to further their agenda when Rosby is the one who is really seeking to make the Hawthorne Police Department pay for the murder of his dog.

UPDATE II: Here is a lengthy comment left on Rosby’s Facebook page that gives detailed background on the situation:

    • Joseph Cuervo Maya-Munoz OK, I can chime in on this story with some first hand comments as I am the person who “offended” the other page. As some background, I am one of 10 admins for this FB *GROUP*: 

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/664499923564915/ 

      I did NOT create that group but was appointed one of the admins after the creator, Trevor, decided I was a bit of an asset. 

      OK, so fast forward. I was not hopping around looking at other pages or trying to protect the “Justice for Max” movement from infringement, or anything. I was just in my group above kind of oblivious to the other pages. 

      About 3 days ago, on Tuesday, Leon came to our group and posted asking who was the admin of this particular page (NOT a group, but a community page): 

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Max-the-Rottweiler-Murdered-by-Hawthorne-Police/139654549566394 

      And he actually thought I was one of the admins. He posted his number – and I called him and confirmed I was NOT the admin of the page above (distinguish from the “group” I am an admin for). Leon mentioned on the phone that there were some pages that were posting erroneous information and that it was getting out of hand how many pages there were. His family pointed this out – he was too busy mourning, being depressed, and going to therapy that he did NOT immediately go home after Max was killed and start a FB page – but others did. Some of the pages were using pictures from his own personal FB page (a violation of trademark/copyright law and a violation of FB’s ToS) and appeared to be spinning some of the facts to make supporters less sympathetic. For instance, some of the pages were posting that if anyone wanted to make a donation to the Leon/Max cause to send it to the ASPCA. This is erroneous – Leon tried to correct it but they ignored and/or banned him.

      So, the page in question, while I had Leon on the phone – I messaged the admin. 

      Here’s the beginning of the thread (keep in mind that I am at this point investigating on behalf of Leon who I had on the phone at the moment this thread was going on): 

      Conversation started Tuesday

      1:54am
      Joseph Cuervo Maya-Munoz
      Who is the administrator of this page??

      2:01am
      Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police
      I am one of the Admins. What can I help you with?

      2:02am
      Joseph Cuervo Maya-Munoz
      But, who are you? I have Leon on the phone – he wants to know who you are!
      He needs to issue you guys a license for using the name “Justice for Max” and wants more clear communication on what is being posted. There’s some inaccuracies. We can do a conference call if you’d like! 212 XXX XXXX,

      [no response]

      2:27am
      Joseph Cuervo Maya-Munoz
      Hey there: Just got off the phone with Leon. He says he’ll message you in a minute or tomorrow. Basically, he wants to know who you are and wants to establish a direct line to you (the admins) so that the information is authenticated before it’s disseminated to the community. With a community of 15000+ yo
      u can do a lot of good or a lot of damage if the wrong info is posted!
      Wednesday

      [13 hours later - no response]

      3:47pm
      Joseph Cuervo Maya-Munoz
      Guys, whoever the chief admin is – please contact Leon at XXX XXX XXXX. The idea is to have a quick engine of dissemination but not necessarily too close to home. In other words, perhaps, he can text an admin directly (a member of his team) for breaking news, etc, for quick posting on the page. In reality, simply knowing who some of the advocates are is ideal – but only one is necessary. Making him an admin is less desirable, I believe, because it can backfire if someone posts something negative and he’s an admin – he can take bad press for that. If he has a circle of 5-8 advocates who are charged with the various social media outlets, that would make for a tight, well organized, machine. I wonder if I’m making sense here. On the phone, he wanted to know who the admin/s is/are so I’m not making this stuff up – I’m only trying to help him get organized. I’m going to help build the website and am one of the admins for the group but for this community page with 15000 likes, we have no idea who the admin/s is/are!

      3:58pm
      Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police
      Joseph you’re making sense but I’m telling you, we all have jobs – I

      4:00pm
      Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police
      I don’t have time to call you, none of us are going to call you. We run the page by just grabbing info as we get it and post it. If there is anything Leon wants posted, simply have him message the page. I can’t be on call for you – I’m literally at work right now in an office. BUT, if you message the page, we will see it. We are more than happy to help spread the word about whatever is needed! We just are too busy to basically be “on call” for you via call or text message.

      4:01pm
      Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police
      As we said before, we are happy to post anything that needs posting. Just let us know or have Leon let us know. If we have any questions about verifying something before it goes out, we know we can go to you or him now. We are more than happy to run this page and keep the content going but none of us are going to give you our personal numbers as we do not work for you – we’re just running a page here! So please just message us with anything important. Thank you!
      Wednesday

      8:16pm
      Joseph Cuervo Maya-Munoz
      OK – Spoke to Leon briefly today; he would like to have direct access to the lines of dissemination but if you’re able to post things relatively quickly, that should work. He’s likely going to have his own official pages launched soon so he can post things and then you can mirror off of there. Cool? The page you’re running looks good though – it’s good for keeping people interested in the cause which is very crucial.

      I thought the thread was over there – and that the issue was “dead”. But it continued the next day (see below).

      In that same conversation, I recommended to Leon, and walked him through the procedure step-by-step including the wording, title of page selection, etc, the creation of his own “Justice 4 Max” FB page which he created at that moment and appears here (in fact, I was the first like!):

      https://www.facebook.com/justice4max1

      Now, you can confirm the ill-will of the page above (Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police) because you can visit them and see that they refused to post Leon’s new page info, Max’s funeral services info, and also his accurate donation info (he set up a fund receivership through a CPA in Northern California and he wanted to post that info because he was getting lots of messages asking how people can donate to the cause – he was in deep about 10K at that time including the memorial, examination of Max’s corpse by their private medical examiner to examine the trajectory of the rounds shot by Salmon, the legal fund, the legal research, the criminal defense by the criminal lawyer, lost wages/salary, etc.) 

      So, to confirm that the page above is not being honest, simply look for evidence that they are NOT posting all the info concerning Leon/Max such as his official page and Max’s funeral services. Once you see that, you should be able to more easily determine that they have some other interest or agenda. I can speculate along with you once we look at some evidence. 

      So the thread continued that morning – I messaged them asking them to post Leon’s new official FB page info and here is the thread (notice how it bounces back showing they blocked me):

      Joseph Cuervo Maya-Munoz
      Please post this (feel free to authenticate by going to Leon’s page): “Attention ALL members and visitors to this page: Please visit the **OFFICIAL** Leon Rosby/Max the Rottweiler Facebook Page here:https://www.facebook.com/justice4max1
      While the present page you are on is excellent to help gather support for the cause, if you want official information and news directly from Leon and his team, please go to the official Facebook page!
      Thank you to the wonderful admins of this page for creating this page to help gather support and keep up the good work!!”

      Justice 4 Max – My Baby Rottweiler Killed by Hawthorne, CA, Police
      OFFICIAL Page for Justice 4 Max about Max my Rottweiler who was killed by the Hawthorne Police in Hawthorne, CA. Please visit 4 OFFICIAL latest/breaking news & info. God Bless. Let’s get Justice 4 Max and ALL DOGS unjustly killed by police! by Leon Rosby
      Page: 707 like this

      10:49am
      Expand
      mailer-daemon@mx.facebook.com
      Mail Delivery Failure

      ***** SO at this point, the message bounced back so this was a bad sign so went ahead and posted a message on our GROUP inviting people to go to their page and post Leon’s official page info and there were some pages not working with Leon and possibly pursuing their own agendas. I was then unblocked and that same page sent me this message (she creates a bit of a straw man or smoke argument where she says I have a problem with them because they won’t surrender personal information – not true; the message above shows I/Leon were fine with them just posting what we wanted… that is until she blocked):

      Thursday

      5:37pm
      Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police
      Joseph – I see that you are posting in the group that somehow us not giving our identities away is bad. Did you consider we don’t want to be in your back pocket for every beck and call you have? Also, you claimed that you asked us to share your official page – you did not, look at this thread! Did you ask that? No. Instead you spammed the page and are trying to get it shut down. Great, yeah, get rid of 15k supporters! Sounds like a good plan! lol (sarcasm)

      5:37pm
      Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police
      PS – we don’t need you to issue us a license. We’re the ones who created a page. Leon is free to message us anytime, as we’ve said again and again. 

      5:52pm
      Joseph Cuervo Maya-Munoz
      Uh, then offer to make me admin, Leon admin, or someone he chooses. You didn’t even posit that as a possibility… why not? Beck and call? What are you talking about? If we didn’t, then we must have internally mis-communicated. No, not trying to get it shut down – YET. What I did was to begin the process by telling FB that your page is infringing by using our photos, likeness, etc, without permission. If you were willing to work with us and simply communicate better we would then give you a license to use Leon’s name, likeness, etc, to make it legal and legitimate to do what your’e doing. You’re not a lawyer, right? I am.

      **** READ THIS **** Now, it’s clear that the young lady who runs the page (she does work as a brand ambassador by sitting and posting for other small companies’ FB pages) doesn’t understand IP law. That’s fine – it normally involves a license to use photos, etc, on another page – otherwise, photos are protected works that cannot be taken and used without permission. She didn’t understand that.
      So at that point, blocked again, I can offer some thoughts on her state of mind. (After the serial blocking/unblocking we had a few more messages where I indeed accused her of having a fragile ego, which is true, and of being an imbecile only after she referred to me as a “moron”. In reality, she’s ignorant as to IP law and common intuition and has a thwarted sense of doing the right thing: it is appropriate by any standard to work with the cause you are supporting – and I’ve already proven she’s NOT. As for “personal information” she could have called from a blocked number, a Google Voice account, etc, and/or she could have simply posted what we wanted her to like Leon’s new official FB page where she refused to – I was not after her personal information, but it would have been nice and transparent )

      ** PERHAPS THE MOST INFLAMMATORY THING SHE HAS DONE ** is when she WENT to the actual NEW Leon FB page and started bashing him. She pretends to be Richard Nelson, posts inflammatory things about Leon, then affirms it as the actual page she is the admin for “Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police.” See the unbelievable truth right here: 

      http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7133/qr47.jpg

      So you have all the info now along with clear evidence that the girl who is running the page not only refuses to post Leon’s brand new OFFICIAL page on her page, but also has the absolute temerity to go to that page and bash him. AMAZING!

      So, in sum, the girl has a page with 15K likes which is valuable – about 1 dollar per like. And she built it all by herself! Yay, except she borrowed a cause and then refuses to work with the actual… cause itself/himself and then bashes that cause. You cannot write a better script for a lethal piece of vermin. I don’t need you to speculate – I’m all about the evidence: this is all out in the open and you only need to see a few things like the failure of her to post Leon’s info on her page and her posts on Leon’s page bashing him to realize she’s up to, as Leon said, “no good.” You can FURTHER AND CONCLUSIVELY confirm that she’s in it for other reasons (and therefore this ceases to become SPECULATION) by seeing this ** HEARTBREAKING ** and ASTONISHING post here where she posts ** asking for advice on what new cause to now support? ** In other words, she wants to abandon the Max/Leon cause – because she probably doesn’t really care for it – and wants to maybe commercialize the new page with 15K likes: maybe she wants to start selling some kibbles: which may carry a pay day for her. 

      I’m uploading a picture to show the post. SEE THE PHOTO!

      At this point I’ll post some thoughts on her state of mind. 

      As a teenager, she’s simply not an adult yet. She feels she built a page with many likes and does not want to relinquish control – to any degree – to anyone. It is what it is – people can be prideful. She clearly did not support Max’s cause fully or she would have posted Leon’s official page info, Max’s funeral info, etc, and certainly would not have gone to his page to bash him! The absolute nerve of that human being!! She’s NOT doing the right thing – and that’s my opinion. But she is/was gathering support for the cause and posting info on the petition which was why I was fine with her staying under her veil provided she posted some of the info we asked her to. When she didn’t do so, that was when I posted in my group that our members should go over there and post Leon’s official FB info on there on my behalf since I was blocked: and she deletes the comments/posts immediately. 

      Subjectively, the girl acts like a child, gets defensive easily, and is easily agitated. All traits I can work with – I think the kiss of death is the pride/ego that kicks in for her and the latent ill-will I started to sniff out. Many people would probably do the same and feel like they’re being bullied or intimidated and they simply do not want to respond to it. Notice in my message above we concluded the conversation and I was fine with her staying anonymous as long as she posted the info Leon wanted. Once I saw I was blocked, I went ahead and asked our members to go to her page and post Leon’s new FB page info – a very intuitive and reasonable thing to do. 

      So, at best the young lady perhaps has a hidden agenda (see picture), oozing pride, very fragile ego, and a degree of dishonesty (see her page and confirm she is NOT posting Leon’s page info yet claiming to not have info to post, etc, and she is obviously trolling other pages to see what’s going on so it’s clear she knows of the info but merely refuses to post it.) 

      You decide! 

      Here is my plea/advice for you:

      Press/exposure is critical. If you can go to her page and either 1) post Leon’s page info that would be ideal so we can steer traffic to Leon’s official page on the cause. Alternatively or in addition, 2) message the girl and tell her she needs to come clean and post Leon’s info and to please work with him since she is purporting to support the cause of “Justice for Max.” It’s not too late to work with the girl. She thinks I’m rude – but in reality, I am only rude – but not
      derogatory – only in the face of absolute and unrelenting ill-will and ignorance. If she then starts selling kibbles, then it is what it is – maybe people will look for a new page and will come across Leon’s official FB page on the cause.

      Joseph Cuervo Maya-Munoz's photo.
      18 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 2

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  • Kriegar

    Yeah, they’re certainly shady as heel. Say anything to, or about them or their conduct, they talk smack, then block you. Below is my response to their fallacious contentions-but of course, they blocked it.

    What is actually distressing, distracting, and counter productive is a click page constructed to get someones’ jollies of by seeing how large an audience they can get to follow them. Certainly, not mature adults who spend time besmirching another-as I clearly see on here, with this propaganda campaign that I am reading with my own eye *eyeroll*

    • JusticeforMaxPage

      Kriegar – it has taken more time to respond to all the comments accusing us of wrongdoing than it has to post relevant information. So yeah, we’re banning as we see fit now to keep people focused on the cause, rather than on whether the page is doing the right thing or not. Look at the posts.. do you see us scamming anyone out of anything? Didn’t think so.

      • AnonymousVoicesForTheBreeds

        To keep people focused? You have banned the owner of max, was the page not created to seek justice for max or not? Which is it, because you have lost the focus not the other way around. Leon simply asked if he could know who was behind the page, to send you updates and possibly become friends in the long run. I see nothing wrong with that. Even I being an Anon have made friends through my page and have shared updates sent to me and my admins. It does matter if you do the right or wrong thing here because, of the simple fact you are advocating for dogs shot, am I correct? If you wanted to advocate for all dogs then you shouldn’t have made the page all about “Max”. Simply put, your mission, your cause, your goal is Factitious, and you will lose supporters.

      • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

        I know, how dare that uppity man object to you using his story to further your efforts? The nerve.

        • pitbullgirl65

          MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY.

      • Fotaugrafee

        The only “focus” you have is what we call tunnel vision. Look at the big picture for once in your life.

  • http://www.righttorecord.org/ Mario K. Cerame

    I don’t know Facebook’s policy so well, but wonder whether he may have a recourse here. The page is using his tragedy and is misleading. I wonder whether FB would be willing to give him control of the group? Or something? Has he reached out to FB?

    • JusticeforMaxPage

      We are not abusing his tragedy nor misleading anyone. We are still posting relevant information and supporting pictures, and it clearly says in our bio that we are not run by Leon or his associates, but may post things from them if we choose. It looks like that might not be happening for too much longer, though… I’m getting really fed up with this drama!

      • Guest

        So–is it true that you won’t let the guy have access to the page, or administrative rights? What’s the logic? Maybe it’s not true, or maybe you have a decent reason–and I’m willing to hear you out if so.
        I am curious to know, because if true, this seems pretty disgusting to me.

      • pitbullgirl65

        I’ve seen some nasty comments left on there by your followers and I haven’t seen you call them out, including some “dogwhistle” type of comments. That right there is questionable at best. Are they HPD plants? The fact that you won’t give your name out is dubious at best.

        Also, did you ever consider why he had to copywrite on Justice for Max? Because anyone (including the pos who murdered him) can profit off this crime.

        It takes m_o_n_e_y to fight against the po-po and city hall. If you’d let him post there, he could answer any questions about money and the non profit status, but he’s banned! From a page that wouldn’t exist if not for Max’s murder!
        He has already paid a terrible price, and did you ever consider that his life is in danger from the HPD? His family?

      • Carlos_Miller

        Until you reveal yourselves, you guys are frauds.

      • Fotaugrafee

        How do you know which info is relevant if you’re not listening to the people most affected by it? How can you deny admin privileges to the one person MOST directly by this? Doesn’t seem to me like you give a good goddamn about Leon, but instead his dog…and only his dog. When in fact you should care about BOTH causes or neither at all.

    • pitbullgirl65

      Mario I’m smelling a bit of COINTELPRO 101 here with Justice for Max. Y/N? Maybe?

      • Carlos_Miller

        This is not cointelpro. No vast conspiracy here.

        It’s just people capitalizing on one incident to bolster their own cause while leaving the person that was a huge part of that incident completely out of the loop.

        • pitbullgirl65

          lol. I’m always seeing zebras instead of horses. :)

      • http://www.righttorecord.org/ Mario K. Cerame

        Yeah I’m kind of mystified.

  • hazy

    I don’t care for dogs too much.

  • wygit

    I’m of 2 minds on this… I can see Carlos’s point of view, but on the other hand you have the furor about Martin Luther King’s family fighting for control of the “I have a Dream” speech, and how much flack they get for that.

    Does every “Justice for Bradley Manning” page belong to Bradley Manning?

    (Not that I think he’s a hero. I don’t. At all.)

    Ditto Trayvon Martin. Should all the organizations protesting Zimmerman’s acquittal be checking with Martin’s family first?

    • JusticeforMaxPage

      Not only owned by, but licensed by? Can you imagine if everyone who wanted to support a cause and use a slogan (not to mention… we started the page, WE wrote “Justice for Max” as the name…) had to get a license first?!

      • SwimmingTowardsPie

        To be fair, if you’re using the man’s name, photos of his dog that he took, et cetera, he’s entitled to control over that information, if nothing else.

  • JusticeforMaxPage

    Hi Carlos! This is an admin, and here is our reply.

    First of all, I think it is RIDICULOUS that it has come to this, as we started a page in an effort to help dogs, not to get caught up in drama with Leon. It’s saddening that he is focusing on questioning a page (likely because he has over zealous associates whispering in his ears) rather than on the actual cause here.

    Leon’s associate, Joseph Cuervo Maya Munoz, harassed us for our personal information, threatened us over licensing rights, and then insulted us. Leon then called this page a scam and thanked his associate for all his help on his personal Facebook. We are here for MAX, not the drama. You can clearly see there is nothing on our page we are profiting from, nor have we asked for donations other than one time the first week that this event happened, and we literally copied and pasted a personal status that someone sent us directly from Leon Rosby’s Facebook page.

    We think it’s unfortunate that we were able to build the page up and instead of being able to utilize the audience as a team, we are now being painted as shady criminals all because we didn’t want to give out our personal information. Honestly, if we hadn’t felt threatened by Joseph right off the bat, we probably would have been more than happy to contact Leon directly and allow him to call us. Unfortunately, Joseph contacted us first, and there is no way I would ever, in my right mind, give my contact information to someone like him. I will not post all of the obscenities that were said here because I don’t think it’s necessary – I think what’s important to note is that it is our RIGHT to choose who we give our contact information to, especially when we are not comfortable with the demeanor of the person demanding it, and especially when it’s not necessary to further the cause. It is our right just as it was Leon’s right to film the officers, and it’s so funny how a group can demand one right and not respect another.

    As for the claim that we accused Rosby of stealing a photo of MAX, this is not true. Rosby created another Facebook page and took the cover photo, the collage of dogs that we created on our page using user submitted photos, from our page. We asked him to create his own since the pages look almost identical with it, and we created the piece. We would never accuse Rosby of stealing a photo of his own dog.. it doesn’t even make sense. We simply wanted him to create his own cover photo.

    As for Rosby’s comments above in the article, we cannot see those statuses since they’re on his personal Facebook page, so we have no way to respond. We have a friend that was previously friends with him on Facebook and was keeping us updated, but unfortunately she was blocked from his Facebook after she said she would continue to support our page.

    If you think it is so wrong of us to withhold our contact information, I urge you to start a page with this number of likes, and then give your contact information to the first person who demands it rudely. I don’t have time for this drama and think it’s pretty amazing that it has gone so far to become an actual article, so I’m done writing about it. I will just paste my response to another person who accused us of wrongdoing by not giving out our personal information:

    “Tamara – it is much easier to run a Facebook page when you have a normal job than it is to attend every event and become an in-person activist for the cause. Just because we haven’t been able to do these things does not mean we support the cause any less. How do you even know if we live close enough to have gone to the events? It’s not fair for you to be making accusations based on the fact that we weren’t there in person – we could be in another country for all you know! Everybody is free to support the causes they believe in, in whatever manner THEY are most effective at. Isn’t that just economics? I am a social media manager in daily life, so for me, the MOST effective way for me to support this cause and the thing I have the most time for AND experience with in my daily life, is to run a really awesome FB page for it since I am already managing other social media profiles. I’m sorry I can’t be more involved and I think it’s personally acceptable to have refused to call Leon directly – we always told him he could message the page with anything he wanted posted. I’m busy with work so don’t have time (nor the desire) to take someone’s calls and texts directing me what to post whenever they want, but have been more than happy to post things that were sent to the page, that way any admin can grab it, and that way we can’t be harassed or held responsible somehow for deciding to not post something if there was ever a time that someone with our direct numbers wanted posted that we didn’t agree with. Another reason we insisted on messaging the page was because there are multiple admins here, and that’s why we’ve told Leon to message the page itself – because there’s almost always at least one admin on here, posting things and moderating comments. But none of us are willing to give our personal info out just so we can be directly on call for a cause we support. That’s like being a supporter of PETA and being demanded that you give Ingrid Newkirk your phone number so she can tell you to do whatever she wants you to do when she wants you to do it! Just because you support it (I don’t actually, just the first example that came to my mind) doesn’t mean you want to be told what to do by it. Sorry that’s such a long comment, but hopefully it will make more sense now. I think this is all very reasonable – and if you don’t agree with it, you are welcome to leave this page and only support the “official” page.”

    The overall message here is that WE ARE HERE FOR MAX, we created the page for MAX, and we do NOT want to be involved with anyone who is going to harass us – whether they are connected to Leon or not. The unfortunate truth is that they are, so we are choosing to avoid it altogether and focus on the cause. (Ps – since when do you license a cause? I’m going to go license “Save Baby Seals!” now, or “Justice for Bradley Manning!” and see how many people will still support it once they all need licenses to do so. Lol!!!)

    • http://www.righttorecord.org/ Mario K. Cerame

      So–why not give the dog owner access to the page? Or administrative rights? I missed that, Or is that incorrect?

    • Carlos_Miller
      • JusticeforMaxPage

        She is our friend that we spoke of above who sent us the donation information from Leon’s Facebook page, as they were FB friends until he blocked her apparently for saying she would continue to support our page. She has also received a threatening call from a so called “lawyer” who didn’t specify his name, at her WORKPLACE, as well as people trying to spam our page with her LinkedIN profile in an effort to “out” her, incorrectly. This is extremely inappropriate and we would appreciate if our friends who have (regrettably) been in contact with Leon & Joseph were left out of this immature fire fight.

        • Carlos_Miller

          All we’re asking for is transparency.

          If you’re doing all this for a good cause, then why the need to remain anonymous, especially when you’re using an incident that you are not connected with in any way?

          • JusticeforMaxPage

            Oh, I don’t know, probably because it feels like we have a MOB of people coming at us with pitchforks and fire over this! Would you wanna give out your info to that?!

          • Carlos_Miller

            It would never have gotten to the point if you would have been transparent from the start considering you were using the shooting of Max to bolster your page at a time the video was going viral.

          • Carlos_Miller

            Think about it, you’re calling for Justice for Max, yet you ban Max’s owner from posting on the page and you refuse to disclose who you are to Max’s owner.

            It’s a little strange.

          • pitbullgirl65

            Please Hannah. I doubt anyone is calling your work. Looks like you’re just profiting off Leon and Max’s tragedy. How tacky and vile. 15,000 followers and I haven’t seen any contact information for people to write and call in, you’ve let people say racist remarks on there, you’ve let them attack Leon’s character, and you my dear is the only one coming off as the drama queen. And yes, I don’t think it was Leon’s job to tell Joe to knock it off. That is between you and Joe. With a family to take care of, a business to run, Max’s lawsuit the stress of watching his beloved dog get shot, and worrying about more retaliation by the HPD, do you really think he has time to deal with H.S. drama? You’re an adult.

          • Freedom_Fighter_of_America

            Here’s a concept, come clean to the people in your group. Remove the pictures that you stole. Maybe even shut down your facebook group altogether because it sounds to me like you’re nothing but a fraud.

          • Fotaugrafee

            Carlos has far more of a pitchfork & fire-laden brigade than you’ll ever know. And we know his name quite well. :)

          • JusticeforMaxPage

            Let’s see – people are calling Hannah’s work and threatening to come to her office on Monday morning. Maybe that will help you understand why we don’t wanna give out our info?!

      • hannahm

        I would really appreciate if you could take my fb link down! People are now calling my work and saying they’re going to come to my work, etc, posting my linkedIN, and this Max page is not mine… I don’t deserve this! Please take it down instead of accusing me of something I haven’t done. I already sent you a very polite FB message about this. Thank you!

        • Carlos_Miller

          They’re calling your work because your LinkedIn page was posted on Leon’s FB page.

          The link I posted shows nothing about your work, at least if you’re not friends with you.

        • pitbullgirl65

          Who is calling your work? Any proof?
          And I’m not buying your story about Justice not being your page.
          You’ve also shown you care more about saving face and stirring up internet drama then getting Justice for Max. I’ve yet to see one post urging your followers to write,call and email the appropriate people. If even half of them did that, it would send a message that this is not going away until justice is obtained. Posting pictures is not social activism.
          This is a serious issue, with a police department that has already executed Max as a message, a police department that has a long record of brutality, a police department that is GUNNING for the Rosby family and you’re getting the f**king vapors because you got your god***m feelings hurt? What a sheltered life you’ve lead and you’re a spoiled, selfish little brat who only cares about having thousands of followers
          For being such an expert on the Internet compared to “old people” like my 48 yr old self, you aren’t very flame proof.

          • hannahm

            1. http://www.reachme.com/msg33/000043905736300108FF9.wav
            2. Get a life. It amazes me that a 48 year old gives this much of a shit about not only a Facebook page, but about harassing someone you don’t even know. You, too, Carlos Miller. I almost feel sorry for you, that your lives are so boring that this is all you can find to do!

            Putbullgirl, if you spent HALF as much time as you have bitching about this advocating for pit bulls instead, you might have actually made a difference in your lifetime. What a waste of air.

          • pitbullgirl65

            Hahaha! Get a life. The most pedestrian come back. And is there some sort of age limit to the Internet? This is hardly harassing either. You’re not very flame proof are you?

          • hannahm

            No, no age limit. I just hope I hang myself if I get to your age and am still worried about things like Facebook.

          • pitbullgirl65

            A bit dramatic I would say. I’m only there because of what the HPD.
            I’m never on there otherwise, since imho, Facebook is the grown up version of MySpace.
            LiveJournal >Facebook.
            It’s older then Facebook, you have a wide variety of appearances, more interesting communities and overall LJ users are liberal.
            Iirc, Zuckerberg used LiveJournal code when building up Facebook. He has a L.J. profile fwiw.
            No hard feelings, you’re young yet, and have some maturing to do. We’ve all been there.

          • Fotaugrafee

            Do us all a favor & just hang yourself now. Please. :)

          • hannahm

            See above comment.

            And agreed.. THIS is not harassment. Posting a fake yelp review on my company’s page, because I was momentarily THE person to point fingers at, IS. So are the threatening messages I got.

            Please, dear. Please. Find another blogger to believe every word of. This is not the one. There are better things to do with the few years you have left.

          • pitbullgirl65

            You are such a mean spirited little person Hannah. I already said those things are wrong. The few years I have left. LMAO! How do you know you only have a few years left yourself? You may get cancer, have a traffic accident, et al.

          • Fotaugrafee

            Boo-hoo you shallow cunt. Cry us a river. Really, keep whining.

            You got yourself involved in a matter or “cause” w/o bothering to invest anything into this other than a viral video of a dog getting shot. I’d say that over 75% of your “followers” are guilty of the same damn thing, too, sadly. If they know half of what really went on here, outside of Max getting shot, they probably wouldn’t even give a damn unfortunately.

            Pretty bad how young America cares more about a dog getting shot than they do their own rights getting flushed right down the toilet.

          • hannahm

            You guys are still going on about this? How adorable. It looks like the admin is now apparently a teenager according to Carlos. Sooo tell me again.. how did I get myself involved? Sure seems like everyone that’s angry can’t decide who to point fingers at next. Please, do tell, my sheep friends.. Do you guys always get your pitchforks out whenever a shitty blogger tells you to? haha!! It’s just tooooo funny. Dear Carlos.. who are we blaming next? Oh I’m so amused.

          • Fotaugrafee

            Carlos, to many of us, is an activist. “Shitty blogger” to you, obviously, b/c you don’t give a flying fuck about OUR cause. Matter of fact, I’d say you’re ignorant to it, and don’t care to understand anything about it. You’re one of the REAL sheep in this country who have your preconceived notions about how the police are our heroes. You can’t wrap your pin head around the fact that Leon didn’t do anything wrong to warrant this chain of events to happen! Loud music? Whoopie, sounds like a “we’ll find something to nail him on” charge.

            Carlos at least took the time & effort to start PINAC in an effort to expose the fact that our photographic liberties. Not some PETA-wanna be page looking out for animals like Cesar the Dog Whisperer.

            If you can’t understand the difference between shitty blogger & activist, you really are a stupid twat. Ever think that your social networking also qualifies as “shitty blogger” status? Funny how you’re fighting more for animal rights than you are HUMAN rights! Go get laid or something.

          • hannahm

            And you’re right.. I do care about myself and the wellbeing of my job more than getting justice for Max, especially now! It’s not my page, not my problem, and DEFINITELY not a cause I support after Leon allowed his supporters to harass me and send fake, negative reviews to a yelp page that didn’t deserve it. I love dogs, but Leon Rosby can go FLY A KITE for all I care. Good luck getting anything done with all your negative energy, Rosby evangelists!!

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            How dare that uppity man object to you using his story to further your cause! I mean, how dare anyone give you a taste of your own medicine.

          • Fotaugrafee

            Leon “allowed” this? Somehow, I have a feeling that Leon was about as “directly involved” as any one of your 15,000 followers makes YOU liable for whatever it is they might do to Leon. Think about that…

    • Fotaugrafee

      It it was a “cause”, you stupid twit, you’d have left Max’s name out of it. You are simply capitalizing on Leon’s misfortune by using Max’s name as poster child for your supposed “cause”.

      Again, if you really gave a damn about a “cause”, you’d be taking up for the Leon’s “cause”, too. Not just the dog. The dog was an unfortunate casualty as a result of responding to his owner’s detention by the gendarmes.

  • Chey Enne

    so sad that leon has made this all about him and wanting ppl to give him money to fuel HIS issues with the law….. MAX is what we support its not about him…MAX was the victim in all this stupidity…MAX IS NOT THE ONLY DOG THAT HAS BEEN MURDERED BY POLICE… ..

    • pitbullgirl65

      What proof do you have that it is funding his legal battle? And that he’s not doing it for his dog? Have you seen the video? Can you imagine that happening to you?
      Do you believe the HPD is not going to harass him and his family over this too? Or worse? I hope to hell that they will not because of all the attention focused on him right now. Goggle COINTELPRO for some of the history of our government murdering activists.
      Have you checked out his non profit foundation for Max? It takes YEARS and money to fight against city hall and law enforcement entities.

    • Carlos_Miller

      Max died defending his owner. And he has legal issues to deal with.

      It’s true that “MAX IS NOT THE ONLY DOG THAT HAS BEEN MURDERED BY POLICE.”

      But then why the hell did that page use Max’s name to build their following?

      • Fotaugrafee

        Because they’re attention whores who knew damn well that when people associated the “dog getting shot video” with “Max the Dog”, they’d get lots & lots of followers to support their juvenile attention whore ways. :D

        Kids.

    • Fotaugrafee

      Then you should wrap the same noose around your neck w/ Hannah & both jump off the same cliff.

  • Emerald Etherington

    the man who was arrested did absolutely nothing wrong, its not illegal to film in a public place, nor is it illegal to film police in a public place…. he was NOT abstracting the job of the police, and if those stupid police actually were tried to handle animal involving situations they would know that Max was not being aggressive, they would know he wanted to know why they were handling his own so rough

    • Emerald Etherington

      the arrest of the man was 100% ILLEGAL

  • Kenneth Bankers

    I have seen this page passed around face book and i have warned all my friends about this BS. Thats a few hundred people you lost due to your BS. If you wanted to help MAX you would be forthcoming to Max’s owner. Sorry but you pulled a very duchebaggery move. i have seen the vile posts of your so called supporters and none of them have been banned so get over your rightous self and do something constructive.

    • pitbullgirl65

      Kenneth and Emerald: here are some of the comments left on that page
      “:Rediculius. This has turned into a joke. I’m for the dogs out there that deserve justice for wrongful use of deadly force. Granted the idiot should have minded his own business and in conclusion his dog has to pay for just being a dog. And now he’s looking for a payday because people CARE about how his dog was wrongfully shot just for doing what any dog would have in that situation for his owner. I’m done with this, these people sicken me. I will find other ways to support ALL dogs treated wrongfully and not this specific cause because this “Leon” guy is getting attention he does NOT deserve. He provoked the cops and ended up losing his best friend. I’m sad for max and all other dogs treated like this, however the owner can fall in a 6foot hole for all I care. All that guy see’s from this is a payday, and that’s pathetic.
      4 · 2 hours ago via mobile
      Olivia Dalessandro And it’s not just him. Actually I think the problems have primarily been caused by this Jose Cuervo guy.
      1 · about an hour ago
      Justice for Max the Rottweiler – Murdered by Hawthorne Police ^^ Yes. That’s all we’ll say. Yes yes yes.
      about an hour ago

  • ProudGrandpa

    Mailing lists are worth money to non-profits and to political groups. 15,000 political motivated names are a marketable commodity.

    • pitbullgirl65

      My thoughts exactly. And the only “support” I’ve seen is a petition. No asking followers to call or write I’ve notice. Nothing. Something is fishy

      • Carlos_Miller

        Petitions go nowhere. And what’s a petition seeking justice for Max that is not signed by Max’s owner?

        • pitbullgirl65

          I agree.

    • Carlos_Miller

      I agree that this is more about building a social media following than anything else, which is why that one chick – who works for a social media company – is demanding I remove her link to her FB page, claiming that it will cause her to lose her job.

      Social media is all about transparency, so they failed that part here.

    • Mark Olish

      OMG , ProudGrandpa ! We found something we agree on !

      • Proud GrandPa

        Hi Mark,

        Thanks for the heads-up. I do not recall your posts by name before, but will look for your name on posts now. Here is something else about which we surely agree: The right to express disagreement is essential for representative government. May courteous discussion and debate thrive on this website.

  • Carlos_Miller

    One of the issues I am having over all this is how they keep saying that it’s all about Max, not about his owner.

    But we all saw the video. Max was killed because his owner was getting arrested. Max jumped out of the car window to defend his owner.

    It doesn’t necessarily mean he was going to attack the cops, but he was showing them that he was concerned that they were arresting him.

    Leon Rosby, Max’s owner, knew he was going to be arrested, so he placed Max in the back of his car before he walked back to the cops, turned around and allowed himself to be handcuffed.

    The fact is, Rosby never showed resistance and never threatened cops and never showed any indication of violence (including putting his dog away instead of letting the dog defend him from the start).

    So all the cops had to do was have a little common sense and allow Rosby to control his dog. We’re not talking Hannibal Lecter here. It wasn’t as if he was going to suddenly pull out a knife and kill the cops.

    But, of course, these cops have that thuggish Robocop mentality that has become the norm in this country, so they had to kill the dog.

    Cops kill dogs all the time because they are so goddamn clueless in how to deescalate a dog’s aggression.

    But this was one of the few times that it was caught on video, which is why the story generated so much outrage.

    I ended up with 200,000 page views in a single day, which is way above my daily average of 13,000 a day.

    That led to somebody launching the Justice for Max Facebook page where it now has more than 15,000 likes.

    Rosby tried to find out who the people were behind that page because they had obviously created a respectable following.

    And considering it is his dog they are seeking justice for, it’s a reasonable question. Don’t you think?

    But they didn’t want to tell him who they were, so it led to the drama we’re seeing here.

    The truth is, those people running that page never met Max, never had to deal with cremating or burying his body and never had to face criminal charges while watching their dog die.

    They are merely capitalizing on the situation to bolster their own agenda, which seems to be to prevent dogs from getting killed needlessly by cops.

    That’s a respectable agenda. But they’ve done it in a very disrespectful way.

    • MongoLikesCandy

      Honestly they are pursuing an agenda and tactic similar to your own, just not as well:
      • Each have a higher pursuit: educating about animal atrocities vs educating about photographer’s rights
      • Each teaches about that higher pursuit by using examples of other people’s misfortunes

      Where they differ:
      • You are one of the main stories so it affects you personally. While they have no direct relationship with the affected parties, they are attempting to speak about something that affects society as a whole.
      • You use examples of many people’s stories to paint a bigger picture. They exploit one dog’s story to personify a bigger picture.
      • You’ve been respectful of everyone’s opinion. And while you don’t always adhere to the wishes of the subject of a story, you don’t hide their objections and why in some cases you ignored it. They didn’t. (We can praise their efforts while condemning their mistakes, but remember they never claimed they were journalists.)

      • I like bulleted lists.

    • Fotaugrafee

      Yes, it just shows how many more ignorant sheep we have to contend with in this country, and how our plight at PINAC goes on deaf ears to a big chunk of society. The belief that “the LEO’s are hear to protect us” is apparently far more apparently when reading FB posts like those above.

  • Jon Quimbly

    So, work with Max’s owner to start a new page. Problem solved. Take pageviews away from the bad page admins with a new page.

  • Drexel Hill Watch

    If anyone shouldn’t be complaining about censorship, it’s YOU Carlos. You’ve deleted many comments from people bringing valid opposing arguments to the table in the past.

    • Rob

      You’re full of shit Drexel. I’ve been closely following Carlos since he launched this blog in 2007, and the only comments he’s ever deleted were direct threats of violence against someone, which are not protected by the 1st Amendment.

      • Drexel Hill Watch

        I have proof! Keep making yourself look like an idiot!

        • Rob

          Yeah, ok. Prove it then.

        • Kenneth Bankers

          Agreed lets see what Carlos has deleted “Not Pixs or what ever he was on a year or so ago . Carlos ONLY deletes direct threats. I know because i have posted bull shit trolling in the past and they are still there. LOL

    • Carlos_Miller

      The last comment I deleted was back in December 2012 when a commenter suggested that a 17-year-old high school student stab a security guard who was responsible for the deletion of a video the student had recorded.

      And that was an action that was supported by other readers as you can see on the link below.

      But if you have proof of other comments I’ve deleted, please provide it because I can’t even remember the last comment I deleted before the one I just mentioned. I really couldn’t be bothered.

      I actually welcome opposing views because that leads to debates, which help us get closer to the truth.

      http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2012/12/04/miami-dade-school-officials-force-student-and-pinac-reader-to-delete-footage-of-security-guard-abuse/#comment-727861082

    • Freedom_Fighter_of_America

      Still waiting on that “proof” Drexel. It’s funny how people like to claim they have proof, but their idea of proof is merely making the statement.

      • Rob

        Like I said, he’s full of shit.

  • JusticeforMaxPage

    Way to update your article with the *partial* conversation we had with Mr. Joseph. Here is the entire transcript, where you can see he is the one who acts like a 16 year old girl. This is a from a chrome plugin that skips when the page scrolls – not photoshopped. If you need any clearing up about specific messages, please let us know as we are happy to oblige. If you can read this and still say we are the immature ones, that’s fine! It just means you’re an idiot. PS – we only blocked him once, at the end. Poor old man doesn’t know how to use FB. PPSS – If we are 16 year old girls, as he is telling everyone, isn’t it even worse for people to be demanding the personal info of a minor? http://awesomescreenshot.com/0bb1j54p52

    • pitbullgirl65

      Hanna/ Richard Nelson if you and your followers really cared about Max, you would be urging them to write and call the Hawthorne city council, mayor, the DA, et al. All of the contact info including the proper people to talk to, and other valuable info packets is on this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/664499923564915/674434472571460/?ref=notif&notif_t=group_activity Why don’t you post this for Max? And other victims of police violence? And there is a Hawthorne City council meeting you can attend. Could you promote this on your page?

    • Anon

      You are hurting Max’s cause by being a distraction. You have no business doing this.

    • Ron

      I have just read that screenshot. Hmmmm, are you guys SURE you are not 16 year old girls?

      Really?

  • johnl

    Wow Carlos when did you become the arbiter of what counts as legitimate activism? Lots of activists prefer to be anonymous. There is a long tradition of anonymous political publication in the USA. Not everyone is an independent contractor. Some people have regular jobs that they could lose if they take politically unpopular stances. Your stalking of the dog people is really creepy.

    • Carlos_Miller

      When I came across comments from Leon Rosby on Facebook about how upset he was from being banned from participating on the FB page that was seeking justice for his dog.

  • Fotaugrafee

    Somewhere, somehow, FB should be able to garner subpoenas for you as to who the “admins” of the indirect Max are, and if they are indeed collecting money for their cause, drag their ass into court & claim that money for Leon & HIS cause.

  • Andrew Cook

    It sounds as if Leon and Joseph were being pushy and demanding things that the admins were not obligated to provide. They do not need Leon to “issue a license”. They can post whatever they want on their Facebook page because it is theirs. Furthermore it seems rather rude for Joseph and Leon to ask for admin priviledges for a fb page that belongs to someone else. I dont condone all the trash talk done by the admins of the fb page, but I do think that Leon and Joseph were way out of line to demand anything.