Home / We Were Detained by Hialeah Police for Making a Public Records Request at City Hall

We Were Detained by Hialeah Police for Making a Public Records Request at City Hall

 Florida has perhaps the most liberal public records laws in the United States, but you wouldn’t know that by making simple requests to the government officials in charge of those records.

And you especially wouldn’t know that in Hialeah, a Miami-Dade municipality that has a long history of corruption, despite its “City of Progress” nickname.

That’s where we ended up getting detained by police on Tuesday because, in their words, we had “invaded” the city clerk’s office and “attacked” them with our cameras, putting them “under threat” and causing them to feel “intimidated.”

“You are using cameras because you are intimidating people with them,” said Hialeah Police Sergeant Julian Guerra, a man who makes a living intimidating others , who despite using the inflammatory words above, was unable to articulate any reasonable suspicion that we had committed a crime.

But Guerra wanted us to know he was being a nice guy. And despite the fact that he detained us and demanded our identifications,  he was reasonably nice for Hialeah police standards, which is not saying much.

But he was obviously manipulative.

Considering this is the same police department that embarked on a camera confiscation crusade earlier this year, I guess we will label him a “good cop,” which we all know is an act. In fact, if you’re an old Sopranos fan, you will see some similarities between Paulie Walnuts and Julian Guerra.

 

Paulie Walnuts

Paulie Walnuts

 

Hialeah Police Sergeant Julian "Walnuts" Guerra

Hialeah Police Sergeant Julian Guerra

It all started when we walked into city hall with Florida public records guru Joel Chandler, who has sued hundreds of government agencies for refusing to comply with the state public record law. Here are a couple of our previous adventures with other agencies in Miami-Dade County.

The Florida public records law is pretty basic. Any citizen can walk into any government agency and make a verbal request to inspect and photograph records.

But government officials tend to force citizens to jump through a  series of bureaucratic hoops to obtain the records, usually insisting the requests be made in writing, allowing them to throw the request on a back burner and go back to their usual business of whatever it is they don’t want us to see, which is why they go into a panic when they see us walk in with cameras.

In fact, it was Hialeah Mayor Carlos Hernandez, who spent two decades as a cop, who first told me I was not allowed to video record inside city hall because of some “policy” that they never produced and that we later learned doesn’t exist.

But I knew there was no such policy, so I continued recording despite the mayor’s objections and despite objections from his chief of staff, Arnie Alonso, who planted his face right in front of my lens, ordering me, threatening me and finally just “politely asking” me to stop recording only for me to continue recording after “politely asking” him to respect my First Amendment rights.

Considering Alonso received a $25,000-a-year pay increase after Hernandez took office in 2012, he should be happily touting his city to outside visitors as a loyal ambassador.

Arnie Alonso

Arnie Alonso

Former Miami Herald reporter Elaine De Valle, who says her public records requests are regularly ignored, wrote the following about Alonso on her blog, where she covers local politics.

The one-time city parks employee, who beat accusations that he stole vendor monies and rose through the ranks under former Mayor Julio Robaina’s reign, went from being the mayor’s assistant before the November elections to “chief of staff” now — a promotion that apparently comes with a 62 percent raise.

Yes, at the same time as firefighters, cops and street employees have their paychecks cut by five and 10 and 17 percent, the mayor’s main lackey gets a $25,000 a year bonus — basically for watching his boss’ butt.

According to City Clerk David Concepcion, Alonso went from an annual salary of $40,200 a year to just over $65,000. Monthly, his paycheck has gone from just over $3,000 to almost $5,500. I guess when Hernandez says these are “tough economic times,” he only means it for some. Not for Arnie. It’s an economic boom for Arnie.

But Alonso must be doing something right considering Hernandez was not one of the three mayors in Miami-Dade arrested last month, even though that is viewed as a badge of honor in Hialeah. The fact that Hernandez was not among several Hialeah officials issued a federal subpoena last week for an investigation into the previous mayor was also a cause of celebration for Alonso, according to the Miami Herald.

When several Hialeah politicians and others entangled in the tax-evasion case of former Mayor Julio Robaina were served with federal subpoenas this week, it stirred speculation that the criminal investigation was widening at City Hall.

In reality, those served are viewed as key witnesses by the U.S. attorney’s office, as prosecutors prepare for Robaina’s trial, scheduled for early November. Among those subpoenaed to testify: Hialeah Councilwoman Vivian Casals-Muñoz, who notarized financial documents for Robaina; former Councilman Guillermo “Willie” Zuñiga, who borrowed money from Robaina; and political insider Roberto Blanco, who allegedly delivered cash-filled envelopes to Robaina as payments from a convicted Ponzi schemer who borrowed large sums from the former mayor.

Current Mayor Carlos Hernandez, who also loaned money to the same investment scammer, has not been subpoenaed, according to his chief of staff, Arnie Alonso.

But now Alonso needs to worry about the lawsuit Chandler will probably file for being told that his request needed to be made in writing. And the city will also have to contend with possible litigation over having detained us for attempting to exercise our Constitutionally protected right to request public records.

None of us provided our state-issued driver’s license to police as they demanded. I gave them my homemade press pass, which I wear around my neck and contains my name, picture and address to this blog.

At one point during our detainment, while he kept walking into me, forcing me to walk backwards, invading my personal space while accusing us of invading city hall, Guerra pulled the old, “you’re shaking,” routine, insinuating that I must be a criminal because why else would I get nervous around a man with a gun who keeps inching towards me as if he is about to pounce.

This is not necessary nervousness, but a natural reaction known as the “fight-or-flight response.

The fight-or-flight response (also called the fight-or-flight-or-freeze response, hyperarousal, or the acute stress response) is a physiological reaction that occurs in response to a perceived harmful event, attack, or threat to survival.[1]

It was first described by Walter Bradford Cannon.[a][2] His theory states that animals react to threats with a general discharge of the sympathetic nervous system, priming the animal for fighting or fleeing.[3]

More specifically, the adrenal medulla produces a hormonal cascade that results in the secretion of catecholamines, especially.[4] This response is recognized as the first stage of a general adaptation syndrome that regulates stress responses among vertebrates and other organisms.[5]

When you are being detained, you can’t fight or take flight without the risk of getting pummeled and killed, so you are forced to stand there, containing your adrenalin while trying to maintain your camera steady, which the cops have learned to twist into accusing you of acting suspicious.

It’s not much different than the “stop resisting” routine when they are piling on top of you, trying to handcuff you while you struggle to breathe. Or the old, “I was fear of my life” routine to justify beating or killing you.

My Facebook friend Kyle, who saw one of the videos, stated the following about the “shaking” comment, which I agree with:

Carlos, I think his “shaking” comment is a bad attempt at somehow building reasonable suspicion that you are under the influence of some chemical other than caffeine… That would give him the opportunity to prolong your conversation.
However, he is clearly trying to illegally detain you in an attempt to “investigate” — which his way of saying he’s going to question you until you give him enough to arrest you. And that is unconstitutional…

As you can see in the inflammatory language Guerra used to describe our actions, cops are trained to twist lawful actions into unlawful actions, which is why so many people, including attorneys, recommend not engaging with them at all.

But as a journalist, I need to engage with them because it’s part of my job. I’m also confident I am not going to say anything incriminating.

I try to be as transparent as I expect them to be, so I will answer their questions without giving up my rights, especially if I am going into city hall with my cameras making public records requests.

My goal is to get to the point where I can make my public records requests without getting detained and without having to file a lawsuit, so it’s important they know who I am and what I am trying to accomplish because I will create a huge headache for them if they’re not too careful.

One guy who has a strong handle on his fight-or-flight response is PINAC correspondent Jeff Gray, who has been taking lessons from Chandler on public records requests as you can see in the videos below where he and his friend Thomas Covenant visit several government agencies in North Florida.

In his videos, you can see a much more calm, reasonable demeanor from all parties, which metaphorically sums up the differences between North Florida and South Florida. It’s much more aggressive down here.

Also below, in the first two videos, are Juan Santana’s footage of Tuesday’s escapade where you can see Guerra moving into me while I am moving back, beginning just after the 1:10 mark in the second video.

I was in fear for my life, to put it in cop’s words, although you can see I was not shaking as much as he claimed.  Typical shyster cop.

On a side note, I have switched hosts, which is why the blog has been going through weird tech issues over the last two weeks, but I’m hoping we have resolved all the issues.

However, the transition has been costly, really costly, so if you can afford to donate a few dollars, it would be greatly appreciated. Just click the link in the right-hand corner or the one below.

We’re not done with Hialeah yet.

About Carlos Miller

Carlos Miller is founder and publisher of Photography is Not a Crime, which began as a one-man blog in 2007 to document his trial after he was arrested for photographing police during a journalistic assignment. He is also the author of The Citizen Journalist's Photography Handbook, which can be purchased through Amazon.
  • DTM

    “you showed up as a group” – “you attacked” you have cameras is intimidating”- Carlos, put together a group of Muslims and join you in a same scenario as this – you will not be accosted and detained by the police now a days,

    • Voice-Of-Concern

      what the fuck do muslims have to do with this? the issue is public records requests & First Amendment right to record public officials.

      • Elliott Whitlow

        Because of political correctness they are virtually untouchable.. Every department is afraid of being labeled racists by them.

        • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

          Bullshit. I take it you don’t know any Muslims. They get singled out for ‘special treatment’ just as often as any other minority. More often, if we limit it to airports.

          The departments aren’t afraid of being labeled racist, they are justifiably afraid of being called on their racist behavior.

  • paschn

    The hilarious part in all that has/is transpiring in this dying republic is the fact that once soiled by Israeli “training” the sycophants-in-blue are destroying the very nation/people/constitution the filth took an oath to defend. the denizens if this cesspool are so very twisted they vilify heroes, ( Manning, Snowden et al), and deify filth such as that in D.C. and the toadies protecting them from righteous anger. Let it all end!

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/09/27/press-tv-tragedy-of-us-police-training-by-israeli-companies/

  • Luc

    Carlos, I love these public request videos you do with Joel Chandler.
    You expose these Praetorian class thugs for what they really are,
    corporate lying thugs.

    At the very least, all of you should file complaints against every officer on scene, and chief of staff Arnie Alonso.

  • clm1950

    So what was the outcome? Did your group receive the records?

    • Joel Chandler

      No, we did not receive the records.

  • Modres

    The REASON the guy was shaking was probably because he was PISSED and knew he was being railroaded by bullies with a BADGE!

    I think it’s funny that these cops – instead of going directly to the people who CALLED the police for THEIR story – instead went to the people that are supposed to have created a problem.

    Did he conduct himself professionally? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

    His arrogance showed all the way through the encounter.

  • DefendYourRights

    It never pays to get into a discussion with police. They just try to bait you. You’re better off asking if you are being detained or free to do. If you’re detained you should assert your right to remain silent and then exercise it. That puts the ball in their court and forces them to make the next move without providing them with anything to use against you.

    I hope you guys go back there again and repeat the same exact scenario, perhaps with body mounted cameras as well. Let’s see if the officials learned anything from this encounter or if a lawsuit is the only thing that will change their behavior.

    • Proud GrandPa

      Good advice. This should be repeated with cameras again.
      .
      Carlos etc may want an attorney to send a registered letter declaring the law etc. so the baddies won’t have a defense from ignorance at the trial.
      .
      Carlos, There is another legal policy available. Ask your attorney for a retraining order from the judge preventing the police from such arrests. A violation of the court order will be punishable by arrest of the LEOs and mayor etc.

      • Ryan French

        The city is already violating the Constitution and state laws, which are pretty clear. A restraining order against the police (which no judge would ever issue) isn’t going to do a thing.

        Their best option in my opinion is to do exactly what they’re doing, again and again. Document repeat offenses by the city so they can build a solid lawsuit. What I would also do is bring in printouts of the applicable state statutes and ask the city employees if they care to read tem first before proclaiming their “policies.”

        • Proud GrandPa

          Ryan writes: A restraining order against the police (which no judge would ever issue) isn’t going to do a thing.

          Respectfully this is mistaken advice, Ryan. Please allow me to explain.

          The violation of the US Constitution and law is subject to the usual internal investigation. The worst result is only a fine to paid by the city, not by the police themselves.
          A court order, however, is much stronger. A court order has teeth. Do you know that the penalty for contempt of court may include personal fines payable by the individual offender and even incarceration? That is why we religious liberty enthusiasts often have lawyers ask for a TRO until trial. That is pure gold and gets immediate results.
          .
          The second thing to request is the court’s agreement and participation in any pre-trial settlement. That way if the city backs out of the settlement, the court may find it in contempt.
          .
          Thanks for your comment. Also I agree wholeheartedly with you about proceeding with the civil suit. That has teeth.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Ryan, you ask why should you send the city and LEOs the law? It is a subtle legal maneuver to help in future cases as well as this one. You see in determining fines and responsibilities the court will hear the LEOs or DA claim that the error was purely unintentional due to overreaction and that the officers misunderstood the case etc. This would lessen the amount of the fine and reduce chances of a court ordered plan.
            .
            By showing the city knew the law and deliberately chose to ignore it, the judge will be more likely to hit them harder with fines, TROs, etc. It is something our attorneys used to do every year or so in school Bible club disputes against the ACLU and the NEA etc. Certain religious freedom law firms would mail the relevant case law to every public school superintendent in the USA. This made the superintendent defenseless if he claimed he was merely ignorant of the law and was acting in good faith.
            .
            By the way, these letters no longer need to go out anymore. The case law is in our favor and school boards almost universally comply. Eventually this will be the case with photog’s rights.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Also courts have ordered TROs against police departments which violated the civil free speech rights and freedom of assembly rights of religious evangelists. This does happen. It is highly effective.

          • Difdi

            Actually, violating constitutional rights has FAR more potential teeth than violating any mere court order. 18USC242 makes it a crime punishable by a year in prison to simply deny someone their rights under color of law. If the denial is accomplished with even the mere threat of a deadly weapon, the penalty is ten years. If anyone dies (not necessarily the primary victim of the violation of rights) the punishment is life in prison or execution.

            But very few public officials act alone when violating rights. 18USC241, conspiracy against rights, starts off at ten years in prison for two or more people acting together to violate rights under color of law.

            The key issue though, is getting the laws enforced.

  • Proud GrandPa

    I bet all three mayors arrested for corruption and this mayor also are liberal democrats. I don’t recall any mayors endorsed by Tea Party activists or identified as conservatives being arrested for corruption.
    .
    Good morals make good leaders. My favorite book, the Bible, says that where the righteous rule, the people rejoice. This video is an example of what happens when bad people hold power. I am pleased to support the good and oppose the bad.
    .
    Photog rights threaten to bring to light their evil deeds. The Bible says that men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. Applies here.
    .
    A lawsuit will be a bandage on a bullet wound. The root cause is bad people and the people who share their bad values.

    • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

      And yet most of the terrorism in the US is done by right wingers. And if you think conservative mayors aren’t corrupt, you may be functionally retarded.

      • TheFlashingScotsman

        Name them.

        • Voice-Of-Concern

          Rape Culture
          Anti-Abortion violence, including murder & bombings
          Anti-gay violence

          • Proud GrandPa

            Violence on abortion mills is extremely rare and not approved by the prolife movement. You may have non-Christian or fake Christians doing these things.
            .
            Same for violence against homos and other perverts. I suspect if you examine the people who beat up or kills gays, you’d find they use profanity and drink too much alcohol and use weed. Definitely not Christian.

          • Voice-Of-Concern

            1) Violence on abortion clinics may not be approved by all that oppose women’s rights to make their own health care decisions. But it is undeniable that it has happened repeatedly.

            2) Calling people “homos and other perverts”, is highly disrespectful. More than that, by dehumanizing them, you explicitly give more permission to others to act towards them in violent ways. Shame on you.

            Who brought up “perverts”? I didn’t. Your bigotry is showing.

            * Use of profanity does not disqualify someone from self-identifying as a Christian.
            * Drinking alcohol does not disqualify someone from self-identifying as a Christian.
            * Using weed does not disqualify someone from self-identifying as a Christian.
            * Being Right Wing or Left Wing, Conservative or Liberal does not disqualify someone from self-identifying as a Christian.

            Frankly, I find your regular mixing of Conservative, Christian and Republican as if they are interchangeable (they are not) to have the appearance of being intentionally misleading. Or, perhaps you are simply a chronically ignorant ass.

          • crazyassmofo

            This is because gramps is of his father…the devil.

          • crazyassmofo

            I have never known anyone who uses weed to be more prone to violence because they were high on weed. A foolish claim.
            The only thing a pot smoker with a buzz gets violent about is gobbling down a bag of Doritos.

            But clearly evident are increased violent tendencies with those who drink too much alcohol.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind
          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Violence at abortion mills is extremely common and promoted heavily by the pro-life movement. They commonly harass and threaten employees of clinics, as well as those coming and going from clinics to the point that escorts are needed. I used to work as such an escort, I’ve seen the simmering violence first hand.

            They regularly pull stunts like posting up ‘wanted’ posters of those who work at the clinics, along with their home addresses and information like what schools their children attend. Operation Rescue and Army of God are terrorist groups.

          • Proud GrandPa

            The following is untrue.
            >>>Violence at abortion mills is extremely common and promoted heavily by the pro-life movement
            .
            There is not only an absence of any evidence to support this untruth, but the feeble attempt at evidence proffered above is constitutional free speech and does not advocate violence. Shame on you for your lies.
            .
            I am pleased to tell the truth. You did not.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            —There is not only an absence of any evidence to support this untruth—

            Except for the two groups I cited, and all the evidence like this –

            Since 1977, the National Abortion Federation has documented eight murders, 17 attempted murders, 41 bombings, 175 instances of arson, 391 invasions, 100 butyric acid attacks, 662 anthrax threats, 523 instances of stalking and 418 death threats against clinic
            workers.

            Read more: http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/news/137993128.html#ixzz2f5UvNzwF

            —but the feeble attempt at evidence proffered above is constitutional free speech and does not advocate violence.—

            Stalking, harassment, and death threats are not constitutional free speech, though your claim that they are certainly explains why you keep thinking it’s conservatives supporting free speech.

        • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

          I did earlier. Want it again?

          http://www.salon.com/2013/03/06/radical_right_wing_groups_reach_all_time_high/

          http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/terror-from-the-right

          Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year-old girls.

          Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the Internet.

          Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year-old girls.

          Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a “good
          military man” and “church goer,” was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

          Jeffrey Kyle Randall, Republican Mayor of Clarkfield, Minnesota, was sentenced to 275 days in jail for molesting two boys–ages ten and 12–during a six-year period.

          Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr., Republican City Councilman, pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison

          David Swartz, Republican Commissioner, of Richland County, Ohio pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

          Ah, those good old conservative Christian morals at work….

          • Proud GrandPa

            These are awful things. I question whether they are conservatives. Ever hear the term RINO?

          • Voice-Of-Concern

            Ever hear of “ducking the issue”? Or “Moving the Goalposts”? or perhaps “cop out”?

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Isn’t it funny? If we bring up a Conservative that did something bad, it’s all about ‘RINO’ and ‘Not a Real Christian’. But if someone happens to be liberal? Of course that person represents all liberals.

            I often wonder how people can exist with that level of cognitive dissonance.

          • crazyassmofo

            …very similar to the term “self-hating jew” and used for the same manipulative reason.

            And you don’t question…you insinuate from a place of ignorance.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Is it just me, or is it also hilarious that the person who demanded I ‘name names’ is now all snooty and insinuating that I took the ‘spare time’ to do exactly that?

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind
          • TheFlashingScotsman

            If I had the spare time that you obviously do, I’m sure I could put together such a list of Democrats. Now, show me the Libertarians.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Child, I’m not a Democrat, so I don’t give a fuck about how many Democrats you could list. Water is wet, the sun rises in the east, and politicians are corrupt. Doesn’t take much spare time to uncover that. Of course, if you had ‘spare time’, you might risk using some of that time to think, and then, of course, you wouldn’t be a libertarian. Interesting how you don’t have the ‘spare time’ to make sure you aren’t full of shit, but have the ‘spare time’ to make demands that other people do your homework for you. BTW, the ‘spare time’ required for me to compose that previous list was about 30 seconds, thanks to Google. I know, I know, you can’t take the ‘spare time’ to do any of your own research because then you might accidentally risk learning something.

            As for Libertarians, the entire basis of that particular religion is corruption – I’ve got mine so fuck you. Libertarians are pretty much just Republicans who want to smoke pot.

          • TheFlashingScotsman

            Of course. Because we believe in the Constitution, and personal responsibility, that’s corruption. Time for YOU to study a bit.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Child, Libertarians, Republicans, and Democrats all claim to believe in the constitution. They are all equally full of shit.

            Libertarians are a party of privileged asshats who think because they started out on level 15 they get to sit in judgement on the folks who had to start out at level 1. It’s the party by the middle class white boys for the middle class white boys, with their motto being ‘I got mine, so fuck you’. Ayn Rand was a shitty writer on top of being a shitty person. The libertarian movement as a whole are a bunch of corrupt jackasses being played for fools because they never understood the concept of ‘those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it’. But go on, keep thinking you are on to something with your little theories that have been proven wrong by the test of time over and over and over.

            Libertarians are the party of wanna be robber barons and child labor supporters.

            Try some 101 level reading material – http://www.salon.com/2013/09/12/11_questions_to_see_if_libertarians_are_hypocrites/

          • StreyDawg

            This is the kind of behavior that get’s a democrat re-elected.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Good. They may be just as corrupt as Republicans, but at least the Democrats aren’t abusing minorities and women.

          • StreyDawg

            Well, you missed the point.

            The point is what is called abuse when it’s done by a republican, that same behavior is applauded among democrats.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Citation needed. Also, shortbus, as I pointed out previously, I’m not a democrat and I think they are corrupt too.

          • StreyDawg

            After you provide the citation to support your claim about Republicans and Democrats. Kapish, withoutamind?

            I never said you were a democrat..

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            I’ve already cited my claims, within this very thread even. Come on, Shortbus, climb aboard the reading rainbow.

          • StreyDawg

            No you didn’t, lostyourmind.”

            Lay off the ketamine and stop hallucinating about things you think you’ve done and participate in the realm of normal adult dialogue.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind
          • StreyDawg

            Sigh.

            Which one of your posts allegedly addresses the comments in my post. I’m not trying to make this hard for you, so why are you acting like I am?

            Or is that just your natural liberal drama-queen tendencies?

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            I’m sorry, I can’t help you with your illiteracy issue.

          • StreyDawg

            I suppose it was too much to expect that you’d admit to your failure.

      • notliberal

        LOL. Proof behind that?

        Hilarious.

        • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

          Miss the links and list of names? Or did I inadvertently use words larger than you can comprehend?

        • Proud GrandPa

          Within…Mind has no evidence for his lies. I also laugh at the hilarious lapse of logic.
          .
          We civil rights advocates defeated the abortion mills left wing liberal censorship efforts. They cannot stop free speech thanks to our Christian founding fathers’ adding the First Amendment.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            I’ve already pointed out to you several times that I’m female.

            But I am continually amused that despite the quantity of links and citations I’ve provided (and the fact that you’ve provided none) you still think the evidence is in any way on your side.

            Also, harassment and death threats are not free speech. And calling out lies for what they are is not ‘censorship’.

            And the founding fathers were deists, not Christians.

            You’ve provided no evidence. We’ve provided plenty. The reason for that is the truth is not on your side.

    • Voice-Of-Concern

      For someone who had their panties all in a bind about truth & honesty, you sure do like to spout lies. Did access to the internet prevent you from discovering that 2 of the 3 Mayors were in fact Republican?

      • pete

        BWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

      • Proud GrandPa

        Tell me more! Who what when where etc.
        .
        If they were Republicans, give them equal justice as the mayor who was democrat. Every group has its good and bad… only there are more bad in the liberal wings and more libs in the Democrat party. Just the facts…

        • Voice-Of-Concern

          No, you look it up. Doesn’t yer bible say something about Sloth?

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            It also says some things about lying. Christians like PGA do more to further the message of atheism than all the secular groups combined. I mean, if these dedicated Christians don’t believe in god strongly enough to avoid risking his wrath by following the ten commandments, how do they expect anyone else to be convinced of the existence of god?

        • crazyassmofo

          You don’t even see what just happened here to you gramps?
          You made an assertion with an insinuating comment.
          You were then informed you were wrong and biased.
          And then you move the goalpost by expanding your argument in an effort to save face.
          Yet you cite the Bible…and are a hypocrite.

          The truth dick was just rammed up your asshole…yet again.
          But because this has happened to you so many times your anus has blown out and you can no longer feel it while you are getting reamed by the truth.

        • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

          —only there are more bad in the liberal wings—

          Well, if we go with your definition of bad that apparently includes things like ‘supporting equality’, ‘advocating freedom’, ‘believing minorities are people’, ‘telling the truth’, ‘championing education’, ‘using reason and logic’, ‘understanding facts’, ‘opposing torture’, and ‘showing compassion’, then yes, absolutely, I agree, liberals are way worse than conservatives.

    • StreyDawg

      Tis’ the writings of someone who routinely pulls their commentary out of their ass.

    • Elliott Whitlow

      Unfortunately in Illinois I don’t believe political party has any effect on the level of your corruption. However, the democrats of that state have refined it to a high art..

    • Rail Car Fan

      “Proud GrandPa” said in part…

      “A lawsuit will be a bandage on a bullet wound.”

      One doesn’t need a lawsuit if their aim is such that it’s more than just a bullet wound!

      Rail Car Fan

  • Rusty Gunn

    It’s amazing that a cop can say things that’d mark the rest of us completely loony but you have to take the cop seriously because he has a gun, a badge and a uniform.

  • Guy InCognito

    So, how often do the Hialeah police make detainments at press conferences then; Jail cells must be bursting at the seems after them. Being surrounded by several cameras and microphones they must be so scared for their lives. Good thing none of them has used stand your ground to kill a reporter yet.

  • Not a Floriduh lawyer

    I agree that the cops were wrong to detain you — telling you you’re not allowed to leave. However, there is no violation of your rights when the cops ask you for identification. Cops can “ask” for anything they want. Plus, we know they can lie to you and tell you that you’re required to comply. That also wouldn’t be a technical violation of your rights. As your friend noted at the end, either this was a Terry stop or it wasn’t. As soon as he admitted it wasn’t, you guys were free to go — without producing ID. Next time, don’t tell the cops they’re violating your rights by asking for ID. Just figure out if it’s a Terry stop or not. If it’s not, walk away.

    This is not legal advice; don’t blame me if you do this and get arrested and/or shot.

    • Voice-Of-Concern

      “Just figure out if it’s a Terry stop or not. If it’s not, walk away.” <– some mighty reckless advice there.

      • Haeshu

        Why is this reckless? It’s easier than asking if one is free to go or being detained.

        • Voice-Of-Concern

          Because it’s not easy to figure out if it’s a Terry Stop. The officer may not say if it’s a Terry stop, in hopes of provoking excuses to arrest.

    • Ryan French

      It is a violation of their rights when presenting identification dictates whether they can leave or not. Lying about evidence in order to gain a confession is a different issue than lying to gain compliance to something they are not required to comply with.

  • GreenTriumph1

    Thank you. Sunlight is the best disinfectant for bureaucracies.

    It’s always lies, lies, lies from law enforcement. You asked him in the building if the police was there for your group and he said no. They you are accosted outside the door.

    If I am every in that situation I am going to try and not give any I.D. The report he generates will reflect all of you and your actions in the absolute worst light.

    • Difdi

      There’s a practice common to the open carry movement you might consider. It’s called Carrying Sterile.

      Carry only the personal documents you will require for whatever you are doing. If you are driving, you will need a driver’s license. But once you are no longer driving, leave it in the car. You are not required to carry ID while walking around in any state, though some require you to show it under some circumstances if you have it with you. So you solve that problem by not carrying any. In the case of an open carrier, the person might have a permit to conceal a weapon but they’re not concealing one so they leave it at home. And so forth.

      I often do it, even when not open carrying. I don’t drink, so I don’t need ID to enter a bar or buy alcohol. I don’t smoke, so I don’t need to show ID for that either. My bus pass doesn’t have my picture, and if I were to drive I’d leave my license with my vehicle registration in the car.

      • Proud GrandPa

        Excellent advice. I do that also. Sometimes I carry a special card with me which is useful on several levels and protects my family etc. If readers web search for ‘card’ and ‘police’ etc. they can find several sources. Cards are customizable for different conditions.

        • Difdi

          If you simply MUST carry ID, you can get a Passport card. It’s only good in the US, Mexico and Canada, but works for crossing those borders either way and functions as ID in all three countries.

          Passport cards typically lack many of the easily abused features of a driver’s license, and add a couple hoops to jump through for anyone trying to use one to get information on you they shouldn’t.

  • jimmarch

    Here’s the way to explain the legalities:

    1) They have an obligation to do public records access – period, end of discussion.

    2) You have the right to record. ERGO:

    3) They cannot halt the public records process because of your recording.

    I had a lunatic elections official in Flagstaff AZ try and tell me that because recording isn’t named as a feature of the public records law, I couldn’t do it. This is the tyrant’s battle cry: anything not permitted is forbidden. In a reasonable society it would be met with gunfire, every single time.

    • Carlos_Miller

      If you’re allowed to photograph the records, you should be allowed to record the entire process.

      • jimmarch

        Of course, but the real issue is, if you DON’T have that right it has to be specifically stripped from you by legislation, in which case you can challenge any such bill before it ever gets a final vote OR if it passes, challenge it in court on constitutional grounds (first amendment violation, etc.).

        Law enforcement doesn’t have legislative authority. When they do, there’s a name for it: “police state”. The mayor also tried to pull a new law out of his a$$ and couldn’t do that either.

        It’s not enough to know that they’re wrong. It is necessary to know exactly why they are legally and constitutionally wrong.

        Now. I do not advocate shooting in a case like this. Not practical. I have been arrested in a non-violent protest straight out of the Gandhi/Howard Thurman/MLKjr. playbook. I know full well the power of non-violent protest and prefer it where possible.

        However, I draw the line at cases where the ones in authority commit violent crimes when they know that they are committing violent crimes…and so would anybody else looking at the video. Under those circumstances, if I am in fear of losing my life or suffering great bodily injury, they are going to meet Maurice the FrankenRuger, the world’s only street-practical magazine fed revolver. Among other oddities Maurice has a very fast post-modern sight system.

        A very few such cases have been documented in videos you’ve published, Carlos. One that comes to mind is Miami PD shooting somebody and then pointing their guns on people who filmed it. Another was the killing by Fullerton PD that was preceded by “these fists are going to F— you up”, a clearly violent threat strong enough to trigger a fear of losing your life or suffering great bodily injury which is the most common standard for the legal use of deadly force.

        • jimmarch

          PS: Howard Thurman was a Southern Baptist minister who went to India and met with Gandhi. He then tutored a young Martin Luther King Junior. If you’ve ever wondered how Gandhi’s ideas ended up on the streets of Birmingham and Selma, well, now you know.

    • Rail Car Fan

      “Jim March” said in part…

      “In a reasonable society it would be met with gunfire, every single time.”

      I hate to say it, but,,, give it time “JM”. It looks like things may be coming to that if we want any changes to occur.

      Rail Car Fan

  • Carlos_Miller

    I encourage everybody to learn the public records laws in their states and do the same. It’s time we keep these government officials honest.

  • Tijuana Joe

    Please go to Boca Raton when you’re done there in Hileah or however you spell it.
    Talk about corporate corruption, Boca is a vortex like no other.

    • Carlos_Miller

      Every municipality down here is crooked. Hialeah just doesn’t make much of at attempt to pretend otherwise.

      • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

        All politicians are crooked. You pretty much have to be crooked to get into a political office. Anyone who claims any particular group of politicians is free from corruption or even that it has less corruption than any other group are either biased, involved in the corruption, lying, or deluded.

      • Proud GrandPa

        Why don’t you run for office yourself or find someone who is righteous. Personally I remain extremely skeptical that one could deceive the good voters of FL year after year. Of course Obama did it and so did Clinton.

        • crazyassmofo

          Or why doesn’t Carlos just continue his journalism and activism for individual rights just the way he is doing it?

          So you make a point of being extremely skeptical about how voters could possibly be deceived and then site two huge examples of how that has exactly happened.

        • Carlos_Miller

          I sadly lack the qualifications to run for office because I speak out of my mouth and not out of my ass.

          • Rail Car Fan

            If I ever saw a appropriate response… that’s it! I never could have thought of something like that in a hundred thousand years. As I have told you before…

            “YOU da man Carlos… You da man!!”

            Rail Car Fan

        • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

          You wrote Obama and Clinton. Since you are referencing Florida and deception, you obviously meant ‘Bush’ and ‘Bush’.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Since neither is in office and we are talking 2013, we are talking liberals and democrats,

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            —Since neither is in office and we are talking 2013, we are talking liberals and democrats,–

            Citation needed. Go on, cite the ‘deception’ you think is occurring.

  • Haeshu

    These people are full on corrupt. Legalized mafia thugs, stealing from the public. What can we do about these crooks??? We should not have to live under their oppression!!!!

    • Proud GrandPa

      Organize politically and vote. I recommend some of these: Libertarian, Constitution Party, Tea Party, Republican, and independent. There are good and bad in every group.
      .
      I cannot recommend Democrats as they are most restrictive on free speech and hostile to American and Christian values. Find others who share your views and unite.

      • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

        ‘Democrats as they are most restrictive on free speech and hostile to American and Christian values’

        Liar

        Haeshu, if you really want to get a good idea of what GrandPa and his ilk are all about, I suggest you visit Stormfront.org.

        • Proud GrandPa

          Typical lies from a liberal democrap. Not worth the bother of a reply.
          .

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Oops, sorry, did I accidentally call you on your shit again?

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Please, you pull half your talking points, especially your BS about ‘moslems’ directly from that site.

  • Haeshu

    One more thing. I like you Carlos so I’m going to give this effort a 7/10, but I am disappointed that you all provided ID’s when you were under no obligation to do so. If you are going to do a hard hitting piece of journalism, you have to be willing to let them embarrass themselves by arresting everyone for not showing their IDs then letting prosecutors drop the case because there was no crime.

    This wasn’t hard hitting as you all just complied with his illegal request the same way every other scared American does.

    • Carlos_Miller

      Why is it so hard to understand that I provide my name and press pass not because I feel obligated to, but because I conduct myself as a transparent journalist?

      Seriously, until you go out there and do the same, your ratings mean shit to me.

      • crazyassmofo

        I see Carlos you refused the DOB when asked for it.
        Good job.

      • Haeshu

        I’m nearby and perhaps I can join you one day. haeshukasiiki@yahoo.com

      • ProudGrandPa

        See my other post about the Democrat Senate attempt to define journalist, which excludes bloggers not employed by the mainline media.

        • Proud GrandPa

          Providing a press pass as a transparent journalist will no longer matter if the Senate bill becomes law. Check the links. This is worth a fight.

        • Voice-Of-Concern

          Your other post? Is someone playing the sock puppet game?

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Considering BabyBush did more to restrict the press than any other president, I’m amused by the PompousGrandAss’s trying to sling mud at the democrats.

            But let’s look at the case, shall we?

            Who was the one saying that the definition of journalist was too broad?

            Why –

            Sen. Jeff Sessions, a REPUBLICAN from Alabama.

  • John Gault

    This nazi is talking out his ass. Go after his bond. He has definitely violated their civil, constitutional and God given rights. YES HE HAS VIOLATED THEIR RIGHTS AND SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. This nazi drone should be arrested. I would immediately go after his bond and all the rest of the drones that created this circuis.

  • crazyassmofo
  • notliberal

    So let me get this straight. The PUBLIC enters a PUBLIC BUILDING and asks politely to MAKE A PUBLIC RECORDS SEARCH and the police are called on them and they are rebuffed illegally by paperwork and denial of meeting/talking to the people in charge?

    Then an officer feels one must be doing something illegal because they are shaking? Perhaps he is shaking as he’s been treated illegally by cops in the past.

    I hope you guys push this VERY far. They detained you illegally, they wouldn’t grant your records request legally, etc.

    PUSH!

  • Harry Balzanya

    have you called the FBI? deprivation of rights, Prior restraint, etc etc. unlawful detention at least get it on file.

  • TheSupremeOne

    Hialeah has ALWAYS been a cesspool of corruption.

  • Proud GrandPa

    Carlos and everyone, you should be alarmed by this. The Democrat senate is passing a bill defining who is a journalist which excludes bloggers. See these links:

    .

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-shield-law-20130913,0,4553946.story

    .

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/13/Senate-judiciary-bill-journalists

    .
    While this applies to the protection of sources, it will create a new, national standard for who is and is not a journalist eligible for first amendment protections. The proposed law would create a dangerous, vague new standard that the works of the prospective journalist would be examined in totality by the courts. This means those not employed by mainline media are no longer protected or shielded. If the judge didn’t like your politics, you lose.
    .
    I hope the Republican House of Representatives rejects this. It would set up a double standard favoring political correctness. I am not an alarmist, but this is a no theory. It is real and it is here now.

    • Carlos_Miller

      This is why it’s so important that I conduct myself as a journalist and not as an activist in instances such as the one in the video, even though it’s clear that I am doing both.

      People who criticize me for providing my press pass as a form of identification rather than just clamming up and not offering anything clearly don’t understand that it’s important for me to establish a track record that I have been doing unquestionable journalistic work.

      Because if it ever comes down to me requiring the federal shield law to protect a source, I don’t need a prosecutor to show a judge a video with me refusing to identify myself and argue that I have conducted myself more as an activist and not as a journalist.

      In my last trial, the prosecutors tried their best to paint me as an activist and not as a journalist.

      The First Amendment guarantees Freedom of the Press to everybody, but when you are seeking protection from a shield law, a judge can easily say you are not qualified, if he believes you have conducted myself more as an activist than a journalist.

      For all those people who brag that they wouldn’t have provided a name, that’s fine. They have their own agenda.

      But I have my agenda and it is to leave no doubt in anybody’s mind that I am performing journalistic duties, even if some will argue that I am also doing activist work.

    • crazyassmofo

      So now you are ripping of my posted material after I post it gramps?
      Following my vapor trail.
      But not a crime to be a little slow on the uptake.

      • ProudGrandPa

        You don’t have any material! HeHe

        • Proud GrandPa

          In retrospect I realize we may have been unfair to you, Crazy. You may have intended to post on this serious topic, but it didn’t quite work. Let me offer two bits of advice to help you in future posts. This will make sure you are not misunderstood or ignored.
          .
          When you merely post a link without an explanation, nobody will care. Nobody will look up your link. Secondly make sure the link you post actually works.
          .
          Had you done so, no doubt we’d all be replying to your post. Thanks for the effort to be helpful. You obviously also thought this matter worthy of attention and concern. Good observation.
          .

          • crazyassmofo

            Again, you are wrong gramps.
            I never addressed a concern that my post may have been misunderstood, ignored for any reason, or some type of unfairness.
            Again you make it out to be something it is not.

            I simply pointed out that you were slow on the matter and filling the thread with posts similar to my own.

            II would rather post a link informing someone than necessarily provide my own take on the matter…so they can think for themselves…rather than fill it with biased religious and political opinion as you constantly do.

            You being slow on the uptake and impotent was my only point.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Crazy writes:
            I never addressed a concern
            .
            He failed to address a concern, so nobody read his link that didn’t work. Crazy, that should tell you something about your posting on PINAC.

        • crazyassmofo

          Links to 3 anti-cop websites?
          Nope…didn’t think so.

    • harry balzanya

      Typical loyal to party not country partisan. You are purposly misstating the bill. It protects journalists from revealing a source against this doj and any in the future. It is a shield law, it strengthens the press , it does not take away anyones rights. The law as it exists now could punish journalists. Your simply mistating the facts.

      • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

        Not to mention, it’s the Republicans wanting to further limit what can be defined as a ‘journalist’. Feinstein is correct – not every blogger out there should qualify as a journalist, especially given how many (interestingly enough, primarily right-wing) bloggers are actually advocating illegal activity.

        “Feinstein introduced an amendment that defines a “covered journalist” as
        someone who gathers and reports news for “an entity or service that
        disseminates news and information.” The definition includes freelancers,
        part-timers and student journalists, and it permits a judge to go
        further and extend the protections to any “legitimate news-gathering
        activities.””

        Carlos here would continue to qualify as a journalist. Someone like Paul Elam would not.

        • Proud GrandPa

          You are like the Jews who didn’t think Hitler was that bad or the liberals who drink the Kool-Aid. Think logically and remember history.
          .
          Liberals have no interest in civil rights for anyone else. Conservatives gave us the first amendment originally. We fought to protect it from liberal assaults like the so-called FCC Fairness Doctrine and then from politically correct speech laws and now from redefining who benefits from shield laws.
          .
          Only liberal leftwingers will be considered non-activists.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            —Liberals have no interest in civil rights for anyone else.—

            And that’s why they are the ones fighting for civil rights for folks who aren’t white christian males.

            Oh, right, because in Grandpa’s world, only white christian males qualify as ‘people’ and thus only white christian males have rights. Here is yet another example of Grandpa’s ‘values’ – http://www.fixthefamily.com/blog/6-reasons-to-not-send-your-daughter-to-college

            —Conservatives gave us the first amendment originally. We fought to
            protect it from liberal assaults like the so-called FCC Fairness
            Doctrine and then from politically correct speech laws and now from
            redefining who benefits from shield laws.—

            Liar. I already cited by name the the Republicans wanting redefine the shield laws to be more narrow.

          • Proud GrandPa

            Conservatives fought to protect it from liberal assaults like the so-called FCC Fairness Doctrine and then from politically correct speech laws and now from redefining who benefits from shield laws.
            .
            We still fight for everyone’s freedom. I don’t see leftwinger and liberals and democrats supporting free speech. Efforts like this bill to censor other views are typical of liberals.
            .

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            –Conservatives fought to protect it from liberal assaults like the
            so-called FCC Fairness Doctrine and then from politically correct speech
            laws and now from redefining who benefits from shield laws—

            Liar

            — I don’t see leftwinger and liberals and democrats supporting free speech—

            That would be direct result of your combination of projection, willful ignorance, and bias.

            It isn’t the liberals saying if you don’t believe in god you should get the hell out of the US.

          • crazyassmofo

            When people fall back onto the issue of the Jews and the Nazis…they prove they are incapable or rational and informed real debate.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            Also, hint – you do not have a civil right to force others to follow your religious practices. That may be the source of your misunderstanding, as your ilk defines ‘religious freedom’ as the ‘freedom to make everyone follow our religion’.

            Tell me, if you were allowed to attend whatever church you wanted on Sunday, but during the work week had to pray 5 times a day facing Mecca and before you could attend any government or school function you had to sing a praise to Vishnu, would you consider yourself to have religious freedom?

            No, of course not. And yet if I were to make the analogy – during the work week you had to pledge an oath to god and before you could attend any government or school function you had to partake in a prayer to god, you conservatives would so okay with that you would be screaming and calling names and issuing death threats to anyone who objected.

            And its funny how you claim that it’s liberals who aren’t interested in civil rights, but it’s conservatives supporting locking people up indefinitely without trial and torturing them.

            You don’t care jack shit for the first amendment or for civil rights for anyone except people like yourself. Liberals are for civil rights for everyone, including minorities, women, non-Christians, non-Cis individuals, and *gasp* even immigrants.

          • Voice-Of-Concern

            I guess you have abandoned all pretense of being remotely Christ-like.

            Just gonna blatantly be another self-righteous, self-important, mean-spirited, willfully ignorant asshole. I am shocked.. just shocked. (not in the least)

      • Proud GrandPa

        This bill is not a shield bill. Read the article. It denies shield protection for anybody but mainline journalists. People like Carlos would be excluded.

        • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

          Perhaps you should actually read the bill. It doesn’t say ‘mainline journalists’. It says ‘those belonging to an organization that disseminates news’. This blog qualifies.

          • Proud GrandPa

            That will be disputed in court and is to be interpreted by the judge and prosecutor. Typical liberal bias and bluff in an effort to censor.
            .
            Carlos would be among the first. Read the article again. It lets the court exclude issue advocates like Carlos from the ranks of journalists.

          • http://withinthismind.com/ WithinThisMind

            So, we can add ‘illiterate’ to your list of issues.

            I named names. Why can’t you?

    • Photog at Large

      A real reporter, declared Feinstein during a Senate Judiciary Committee
      hearing, is “a salaried agent” of a media company like the New York
      Times or ABC News, not a “shoestring operation with volunteers and
      writers who are not paid.”

      http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/dianne-feinstein-backs-media-shield-law-to-protect-only-real-reporters-16106/

      Based on the above quote, it seems the shield law would actually eliminate bloggers and citizen journalists as ‘real reporters’.. Clarification ?

  • JdL

    Just when I think the Coward Brigade can’t sink any lower, they do. What a pathetic bunch of babies! How anyone can have ANY respect for cops today is a mystery to me.

    Keep up the good work, Carlos!

  • DeadMike68

    Carlos, may I suggest that you contact your State Representative and Senator ( lots of good that will do ) and insist that they petition the Attorney General .To investigate and prosecute the abuses of your constitutional ( federal and state ) rights by the by the Mayor, employees and police of Hialeah Fl. Especially the slander and insinuation that your group had terrorist intentions.

    • Carlos_Miller

      I have no faith in the local politicians. They’re all in this together.

      The only way they would get involved is if they are sworn political enemies of the mayor of Hialeah.

      They won’t raise a finger otherwise.

      • Difdi

        Local, sure. But what about state politicians?

  • Puce Buzzard

    So.. Next… Ask for a copy of their oath of office certificate. And perhaps to see their (in case of police officers) their commission card.

  • Difdi

    It always amazes me how many public officials have never heard of rule #1 of how not to look like an idiot in public: If you don’t know what you’re talking about, keep your mouth shut.

    Mark Twain put it best: It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.

    And yet, official after official, when confronted by an educated, knowledgeable citizen continues to remove all doubt.

  • Jacqueline

    Carlos,

    I need your help.

    I will be e-mailing you today.

    Jacquline

  • juan santana

    Juan Santana for Mayor of Hialeah.i would like to thank everyone that where there that day we the people have to stand up agains tyrants

  • Mike De Fleuriot

    Why is it you Americans do not understand how democracy works. Not only is it about getting a majority vote to win, but it is also about convincing enough people to vote your way, so that you get this majority. How many people did you convince to vote your way? Or did you just go direct to the complaining about those who voted for someone other than your guy. How many of you complainers have an actual workable legal solution for this problem, and if you have it, why have you not put it into practise?

  • PinacFan

    Carlos Miller your the man! You guys need to go to Sweetwater too.

  • Jazz OZ Hamilton

    Hialeah Police Sergeant Julian Guerra reminds me of something I flushed down the toilet earlier this evening.

  • fly

    Personally there should not be any public records and the constituent should be changed and not set aside

  • fly

    And as for the corrupt why dont you give it a break (overkill )

  • Ryan Marshall

    Props for standing up for your rights but please stop asking if you’re free to leave. To anybod out there making videos of this: If you honestly feel you’re free to leave, WALK AWAY. Cops can and will lie to you about your rights and trick you into giving up your idea. His entire basis for the unlawful detention was BS – he did not deserve respect in my opinion.

  • Ryan French

    Make sure you read up 843.17 before posting things like this. It’s illegal to publish a residential address and phone number of a law enforcement officer in Florida.

  • Carlos_Miller

    I deleted it to prevent any legal hassle, not that I am even sure it was the correct address. And even if it was, there is no need to publish it.

    We’ll address Tuesday’s incident through legal channels.

    http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/843.17

  • Tijuana Joe

    I thought that got overturned. It’s often public record.

  • Elliott Whitlow

    And outside of a resident of Florida I don’t think it could even be charged. I am certainly not bound by Florida’s laws not do I consent to be..

  • Ryan French

    Actually you could be. If the officer/agency/state wanted to pursue the issue, they can certainly issue a warrant for your arrest regardless what state you reside. There are many crimes committed via the internet on a daily basis that fall into the jurisdiction in which the victim resides.

    For example… Polk County, FL detectives bought a book online called “The Pedophile’s Guide to Love and Pleasure” from an author named Phillip Greaves, who resides in Pueblo, CO. As soon as they received the book in Florida they issued a warrant for his arrest for violating a Florida obscenity law. The law enforcement agency in Pueblo performed the arrest, held him, and Greaves was successfully extradited to Florida where he served his time in the Polk County Jail.

    So yes, it is possible.

  • Elliott W

    I wish that case had actually gone to trial, it is far from a foregone conclusion that the state would have won. It also involved sending a physical object TO Florida. Using this case I think it would be hard to argue any level of jurisdiction.

  • Proud GrandPa

    Does selling a book in a state meet elements of crime if the seller is in another state working by phone? I believe so. It is true for phone scams and mail scams in other states. Different crimes, but same legal principle.

PINAC

PINAC Logo cutout copy
Be the Media