May 23rd, 2014

Terrorist Task Force Cop Visits Man at Home for Photographing Police Buildings (Updated) 257

By Carlos Miller

Even after cops detained him more more than 20 minutes for photographing buildings in the New York State Police Academy in Albany this week, releasing him after they were unable to find a legal reason to arrest him, they still sent one of their terrorist task force members to his home to further intimidate him.

But Matthew Grunert, 22, handled the cop in the same way he handled the three previous cops: refusing to provide his identification unless they were able to specify what reasonable suspicion they had to detain him, demanding their names and badge numbers instead.

So now we can imagine he is already on their terrorist watch list as so many of us are these days.

After all, one of the cops asked if he was a “sovereign citizen,” which they are taught to view as domestic terrorists.

“I found it personally insulting and offensive that he would ask me that,” Grunert said in a telephone interview with Photography is Not a Crime.

“I respect the laws in this country, I respect the Constitution.”

Now he is making public records requests to see exactly what information they have on him as well as what training procedures they have in place to teach aspiring cops on the right to record in public.

However, today he learned that Inspector Matthew Gilbert, the cop who visited his home and whose business card is below, paid a visit to his mother at the church she volunteers to further the intimidation process. We will update with more info later tonight on that interaction.

“That just doesn’t sit right with me,” he said. “I’m not a criminal. Why am I being treated like a criminal?”

Grunert is about to complete a master’s program in computer science.

“I’ve been attending SUNY Albany for five years and the police academy is next door,” said the man who has degrees in criminal justice and computer science.

“I just wanted to do a walking tour of the police academy.”

Gilbert card

 

UPDATE: The following is an email from Grunert regarding Gilbert’s visit with his mother:

Just got off the phone with my mother about thirty minutes ago. He called her around 2:00 PM, she didn’t answer. At about 4:15, she returned to the rectory next to the church with the nun she visits the sick with on Fridays. Gilbert waited until my mother was alone then approached her, identified her by name before she had said anything, and asked to talk at her home. She took him into the church to talk. He was quite insistent that I not be listening in and she not record the conversation.

Investigator Gilbert wanted to know:
- If my demeanor had changed in the past year or two, specifically if I had become more paranoid,
- Curious as to why I invoked the Fifth, saying it was odd and unnecessary,
- Kept trying to get my mother to implicate me as not trustworthy. She kept telling him that she trusted me completely. He apparently didn’t like that.
- He claimed I told him that he was going to be a star in a movie.
- He wouldn’t answer when she asks if it had been her instead of me if they would even be having that conversation.
- He said someone gave me the wrong advice about the Fifth.

I’ve apparently become a person of interest for taking pictures of buildings.


Send stories, tips and videos to Carlos Miller.
  • Zhaliberty

    Terrorists gotta terror. >.>

    • n4zhg

      And law enforcement/Homeland insecurity is turning into the biggests terrorists in the USA.

      • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

        wrong tense. that cancer was a terrorist organization before its inception. it is the diabolical offspring of fear-mongering bolsheviks and nazis.

        FDR had this kind of evil in mind when he cautioned “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” there will be a reckoning.

    • Kilo Byte

      How typical, neocunts play the T card every time someone questions government tyranny.

  • Alex

    This guy is awesome.

  • toomuch72

    Wow…My hero – how do you stay so calm and speak so eloquently? I get tongue tied and forget every law/court decision/right when approached by the jack booted thugs – good job.

    • hazy

      Yeah of course it’s hard. Many lawyers and district attorneys don’t know the law when questioned on spot and have to rely on Google or state law books. Even then they get it wrong and grossly misapply or flat out ignore the law.

      • matism

        Not just lawyers and DAs, but “judges” as well. At worst, their decision will be appealed, and after the Mere Citizen spends a shitload of money it MAY be overturned. Or not.

      • Tk Kininson

        heres a lil juicy tidbit. There is no law on any books in the usa saying you need a drivers license or registration at all if you are using ur pov for transport and not commerce. The term ” Driver”, in D.L., is referring to driver as in driver driver, limo driver, cab, ect. You are only required to have a drivers license if you are using your vehicle for commerce.

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          Here’s a lil juicy tidbit.

          Wrong.

          Moron.

          Thanks for playing.

          • Tk Kininson
          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            LOL, OK, now you’ve proved that you’re 1) a moron, and 2) a sovereign whackjob.

            The dictionary he is quoting is from 1856. It’s a little dated. The currently used legal dictionary (Black’s, 9th ed.) defines driver’s license as: “The state-issued certificate authorizing a person to operate a motor vehicle.” DRIVER’S LICENSE, Black’s Law Dictionary (9th ed. 2009).

            The case that the idiot cites, Reno v. Condon, 528 U.S. 121 (2000) is actually talking about the authority of Congress to pass a law which prohibits a state from selling driver’s license information to private vendors, a challenge to the DPPA. It says nothing close to what you claim about not needing a license.

            You can travel all you want, without it being restricted by the government. That does not mean that you can operate or drive a motor vehicle or conveyance or whatever buzz words you want to use. You have to have a license to do that. If you want to travel, buy a horse. If you drive a car, you have to have a DL.

          • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

            i want a horse with wings and .30 mounts

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            I think that they have succeeded in cross-breeding Pegasus with a unicorn, so you can have a horse with wings and a horn. You’ll have to figure out the .30 mounts on your own, sorry….

    • Booger

      The federal government released 26,000 criminal illegal aliens from custody but the FBI shows up to a photographers home for taking pictures.

  • Terry Ehlert

    Never talk to anyone……….nothing can be gained, ever.

    • inquisitor

      I would have said a lot less during this encounter.

      • hazy

        He really didn’t provide much other than his reason for being there, “gathering content for a story” and his name which are probably both requirements of alleviating an officer’s suspicions in New York code books.

        • inquisitor

          I would have said a lot less during this encounter.

  • Tijuana Joe

    Great clip. Put the damn building behind a fortress if it’s not subject
    to public scrutiny. The one thing Grunert probably should have said early on is “Let’s get something clear, I do not need to be part of the ‘media’ in order to exercise my right to photograph. The First Amendment was written for every citizen, regardless of his or her profession. Don’t you know that?”

    • hazy

      Grunert didn’t want to make another issue out of what the police believe media is. You think these cops are going to be educated on the 1st amendment in 30 minutes? Some cops choose to NEVER be educated regarding 1st amendment rights.

  • Clark

    At least the JTTF is honest in their own name in that they are a task force that terrorizes jointly…

    • inquisitor

      This is one of the reasons why I moved out of the US in 2004.
      The militarization of the police force in cooperation with Israel.

      I had also gotten the heads up that the banks and investment firms were corrupt and there would soon be a major scandal, many companies were actually bankrupt and operating on credit, real estate was going to decline by 50% and then unemployment would be the final nail in the coffin.

      No one believed me when asked why I was moving.
      Now…they do.

      • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

        is anywhere safe?

        • inquisitor

          Safer.

        • peck2

          My 12 acres in central West NM is safe. It is a “free gun zone” where I am free to use my guns as I see fit.

  • n4zhg
  • nosepicker

    The government is waging a war against the citizens.

    • inquisitor

      Yes. But it is waged from England.
      Covert repatriation.
      It’s deep.

      • Tk Kininson

        The crown is but a stepping rung up the ladder. The top is the jesuit, then the false jew.

    • http://www.policemisconduct.net Film The Police Always

      Hopefully our returning soldiers who have gotten out are gathering. Would LOVE to see something like this happen.

  • Necron 99

    I don’t know the laws in New York, but in Texas you need not give any information unless arrested. I’m sure Matthew knows the New York laws on identification as he seemed quite competent in the video – just make sure you know your own state laws.

    “Texas PC Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a)
    A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his
    name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has
    lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.(b) A person
    commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious
    name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:(1)
    lawfully arrested the person;(2) lawfully detained the person; or(3)
    requested the information from a person that the peace officer has
    good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.”

    • deymo

      NY law says that police may demand identifying information during a terry stop, but the law does not impose an obligation to comply with the demand. The same law also prevents police from recording the information of any person who is not arrested into any police database. But unfortunately this section of the law only covers the state’s 3 largest cities – NYC, Buffalo, Rochester.

      Ҥ 140.50 Temporary questioning of persons in public places; search for
      weapons.
      1. In addition to the authority provided by this article for making an
      arrest without a warrant, a police officer may stop a person in a public
      place located within the geographical area of such officer’s employment
      when he reasonably suspects that such person is committing, has
      committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor
      defined in the penal law, and may demand of him his name, address and an
      explanation of his conduct.

      4. In cities with a population of one million or more, information
      that establishes the personal identity of an individual who has been
      stopped, questioned and/or frisked by a police officer or peace officer,
      such as the name, address or social security number of such person,
      shall not be recorded in a computerized or electronic database if that
      individual is released without further legal action; provided, however,
      that this subdivision shall not prohibit police officers or peace
      officers from including in a computerized or electronic database generic
      characteristics of an individual, such as race and gender, who has been
      stopped, questioned and/or frisked by a police officer or peace officer.

      • deymo

        Since this happened in Albany, instead of one of the three cities covered by the database ban, the cops put this guy into the database and had their FBI buddy pay him a visit.

    • steveo

      While most states don’t require that you ID unless there is a RAS, I’m a big proponent of telling the “investigator” your name because you are a journalist or acting as a journalist. Like Carlos does, he says my name’s Carlos Miller, you’ve heard of me, right? Giving your name is all that’s required in most stop and ID States, before arrest. You notice in the above statute it says or, not and for name, address, and DOB.

  • Tijuana Joe

    This is all about obedience, not “Terrorism,” the new default
    accusation post 911. He establishes himself as a “Bad Machine” and Thoughtcriminal in the first clip, hence the later visit from the
    patronizing “terror” goon. Sorry, Officers, the Bill of Rights is a living, breathing document and if you can’t handle it you need to get a new job.

    • Tk Kininson

      its dead as dead can be, get real.

  • SamSpade

    Overall, Grunert did an excellent job here. Was he required by law, in this instance, to provide his identifying information, even verbally, to the thugs? Clearly, as a result of giving the thugs his identifying information, they have now created a “terrorist” file on him for nothing more than engaging in Constitutionally protected activity.

  • Fascist Slayer

    Wait.. Wait.. What?? Hold on, I just want to make sure I’m understanding this?? Filming a government building in public can get you a visit from the FBI and V.A. hospitals who put American Veterans on secret death list get bonuses? Ha!! Ha!! LOL… LMMFAO!!! Ha!! LOL… Belly Roll… What a fucked up Fascist Cunt of a nation. You Americans had better fall on your knees and beg and plead with God for a Russian U.S. land invasion. It’s the only thing that’s going to save you now.

    • inquisitor

      The invasion is coming. The west loses.

    • hazy

      There may be no true “bastion of freedom” in this world of ours but you gotta work with what you got to make things better.

      • Fascist Slayer

        If you were working with what you’ve got then I would imagine that there would ten’s of hundreds of thousands of Americans marching in front of V.A. Hospitals all across the U.S. with signs saying “Not our Vets”, “Stop Killing Our Vets”, “End Secret Death List”, but I don’t guess we’ll be seeing anything like that anytime soon, will we.

  • pete

    I just went to google earth. I flew around the building. zoomed in. zoomed out. Got some close up views. Went to street views. Does that make me a terrorist too? I mean, didn’t i just case the joint? Also, I see no fences, no signs posted that it’s a restricted area and that photography is not allowed. Wow, and to think the cops were lying? Who coulda thunk it? I mean, we all know they never abuse their badge and always tell the truth.

    That guy was awesome. He demeanor was beyond calm, kept calling out the cops stupidity. I mean seriously, how many times does he have to identify himself? And what about Brown v Texas officer? Suspicion cannot be grounds for detainment. But we know you were fishing from the get go because you have small dick syndrome. “I’m detaining you until I get answers”! And when he got his answer, he didn’t like it. So, he just kept asking. The best part was when Nazi Sortm Trooper Gilbert wants to know what story he was working on… drum roll please….. YOU DUMB ASS!!!!!! The story is about how you abuse your authority, classify anyone with whom you find suspicious a terrorist, and how the simple act of exercising the first amendment leads cops to completely overreact, lie, bully, and piss on the constitution. F’n pussies.

    • inquisitor

      They are the terrorists.

  • Guest

    The fbi visits a guy for using his rights, who was unlawfully detained by a major using the color of his authority to unlawfully detain him. Is this agent investigating the actual crime deprivation of rights under the color of law? No because I believe he is without honor as well.the only authority they had was to tell him to leave. Detaining him was a crime.

    • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

      filthier than a romulan.

      Your framing of a world turned upside-down is spot on. The first thing gilfart should be investigating is the NY gestapo and the stormtrooper nursery school. The last thing he and his office should be doing is terrorizing law abiding citizens above and beyond the a abuse of the local terrorists.

      at this juncture, the ONLY powers the fbi should have is to investigate and enforce laws that apply to badges – federal IA basically. oh and by the way, how but giving every politician a 24/7 rectal probing to keep them honest? starting from the top down would serve justice most expeditiously.

      until the LEO cult trips over themselves to defend, support, and encourage people to exercise their rights, (especially when it comes to accountability and transparency), their jobs and institutions should be scrapped completely. With the status quo, the good that police depts MIGHT accomplish can never outweigh the harm that will result. plain and simple.

    • inquisitor

      He should have informed the task force investigator that he wanted to file formal criminal charges against the troopers right then and there.

  • Guest

    The fbi visits a guy for using his rights, who was unlawfully detained by a major using the color of his authority to unlawfully detain him. Is this agent investigating the actual crime deprivation of rights under the color of law? No because I believe he is without honor as well.the only authority they had was to tell him to leave. Detaining him was a crime.

  • deymo

    FBI standard operating procedure is to send two agents, not one. One talks, on is a witness (usually with selective memory). It is not common for the FBI to send a single person. It is also unusual for them to not flash an FBI badge before asking questions. This Gilbert guy is a career cop who seems to have been put into an FBI role that he’s not totally prepared for. Why do I say this? He asks to see ID. Cops do that. Trained FBI agents do not. They pull your picture from their driver license and passport databases before they come to your house. They know who you are. FBI agents will however tell you that they are looking for you and ask you if you are Matthew Grunert, Jane Doe or whomever in their most intimidating voice. Why? They hope you’ll get scared and say “No”.

    Anyhow Grunert is smart, calm, but also lucky. This cop in an FBI uniform is obviously inexperienced. Look how nervous he gets. The general rule is to never talk to the FBI. Just assert your right to not talk to them, and ask them to leave. Why? It is a crime to lie to the FBI. And the whole point of their questions is to get you to say something untrue that they can blackmail you with, or use against you.

    • Ordinary Citizen

      Your observations, while interesting, miss the most salient point of Investigator Gilbert’s card – he’s NOT an FBI agent.

      He’s an Investigator for the New York State Police, tasked to the Joint Terrorism Task Force, which is under the aegis of the USDOJ and FBI.

      He doesn’t have a straight ‘fbi.gov’ email – he has an ‘ic.fbi.gov’ which I believe is a subdomain for the “Intelligence Community” tasked to various joint task forces throughout the US.

      You can check the DNS routing here:
      https://www.robtex.com/dns/ic.fbi.gov.html#records

      • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

        whatever the fuck he is, everything looks, sounds, and smells like secret police criminality, be they gestapo, stasi, or NSAssholes.

        afnmfh

      • inquisitor

        That is a very astute observation and important distinction.

      • JCFROMNJ

        Good Point. Hiding out in plain view. I’m doing local FOIA requests from my records clerk to identify grants block funding from Homeland Security to my local PD and other Federal Grants to weaponize the local Federalies .
        “Badges? We Don’t Need No Stinking Badges…”

    • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

      is it a crime to beat an fbi poser to a bloody pulp?

      • n4zhg

        When he’s carrying a state trooper badge, unfortunately yes.

        • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

          so if his badge gets “lost,” will i be ok?

    • JustaVetSailorfromPennsylvania

      Budget Cuts is why there was only one of the storm troopers. They must hate anyone that knows there rights! Great Comment about the FBI. Thank you, I have learned from you.

    • n4zhg

      This is why the Fan Belt Inspector wanted no recording. Makes it easy to prosecute for 18 SC 1001 when it’s your word (worthless) against his (golden).

  • Ordinary Citizen

    What I find most interesting is the uncanny parallels between Matthew’s ‘detainment’ and the same sort of ‘detainments’ by Jeff Gray, Carlos Miller, Shawn Thomas, Maya Shaffer, EMS News and Tom Zebra and many others who are located all over this country.

    The police/state patrol/private security seem to have a virtually identical line of thinking in their approach to the citizen with a camera – confront, identify, detain, demean, release.

    If any of these steps is disputed, there is an immediate escalation of bullying, threatening, lying and intimidation. Followed by equal doses of “You’ve got to see this from our perspective.” false equivalence or the ever popular Argument to Moderation – also known as Good Cop, Bad Cop.

    The only successful outcome of any of these videos I’ve seen is from a direct, forceful, determined and knowledgable videographer. This is not a playground for amateurs.

    • inquisitor

      Yes. The answer to this is simple.
      This has to do with the fact that law enforcement and DHS is trained in anti-terrorism by Israeli police/military. AIPAC is also involved in these cooperative efforts.
      Americans are now to be treated like Palestinians by the police.

      Many links to educate one on why police now treat citizens like they have no rights…

      https://www.google.com/#q=law+enforcement+train+israel

      • JCFROMNJ

        Smile when you say that. I’m a “New Palestinian” and damn proud of it!!!

        • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

          douchebag says what?

    • hazy

      “This is not a playground for amateurs.”

      Well said. Anyone else who plains on doing citizen journalism. This is how it’s done but be careful and be prepared for arrest as the “worst case scenario”.

      • matism

        Actually, the “worst case scenario” is FAR worse than mere “arrest”.

  • JCFROMNJ

    If you were detained, you were under custodial arrest, false arrest given the circumstances. The FBI, well don’t you think our tax payer money would be better spent elsewhere ? The country is coming apart at the seems,and yet they will deploy resources for this ?

    • Tijuana Joe

      “The country is coming apart at the seams,and yet they will deploy resources for this,”

      Shhh. You’ll ruin the whole facade. Post 911 braggadocio from self-important cops, FBI and DHS goons (and 10 other layers of schmaltz) is the perfect smokescreen to make people ignore the 17 trillion dollar debt and the 50-year old crumbling infrastructure. By the way, sir, are you a Sovereign Citizen?

    • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

      Detention, more specifically investigative detention, and custodial arrest are two entirely separate actions and concepts.

      Try to keep up with the rest of the class.

      • Guest

        Not really. One could argue that the important thing to focus on is custody for interrogation purposes. Does the detention rise to the level of custody to meet the standard of custodial interrogation? That’s the point at which Miranda attaches. There are many court rulings showing that detention often overlaps into custody.

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          What the courts hold in those cases is that the detention has gone forward into an arrest.

          For example, a detention is OK, there is reasonable suspicion for it, etc. But the officers take the detained individual to another location against his will, it becomes an arrest and requires probable cause.

          An arrest “is” the definition of custody for the purposes of Miranda and questioning.

          • Guest

            “An arrest “is” the definition of custody for the purposes of Miranda and questioning.”

            Not exactly. There are many elements that define an arrest.

            In Stansbury v California the court stated:

            “the key inquiry should be whether the individual had been placed under formal arrest, or whether the restraint placed on the individual’s freedom of movement rose to the level of a formal arrest.”

            Whether the restraint used rose to the level of formal arrest is by itself determinative for custodial interrogation, but may not by itself define it as an arrest.

  • http://www.policemisconduct.net Film The Police Always

    In the first video, WTF was that thing (female I believe) that walked up to him. How the fuck can one be so ugly and mutant. WOW Then soul-less drives up in the grocery hauler and plays tough guy, then the old idiot with the ridiculous tie comes into the scene with the double neck whom was shaking like an idiot. Then when all that fails, they send the big ole dummy. These cops are ridiculous and the people need to wake up. This is what America has become and we need to DEMAND from your elected officials that this shit stops. Its obvious that this camera man is on a much higher IQ playing field then these 3 idiots. Soulless was then around the 16:00 mark starting pulling BS out of his ass because he realized that he’s dumb and he’s looking like the dumb ass that he is. This dumb ass major was trying to say that he needed permission to exercise his 1st amendment rights. He was so tripped up by the camera man being so much smarter. YOU IDIOTS!

    • inquisitor

      Right out of a comic book.

      • http://dailygrackle.wordpress.com NoelArmourson

        Or a TV sitcom.

  • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

    do you think these fucks need to hang?

    • n4zhg

      They need to take up employment in the fast food industry, but that’s soon to become automated.

  • srandallthomas

    Isn’t the State Police a Government entity, and does not every property belonging to the Government, belong to the People, the Public?

    • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

      nope, that’s simply the nazi party line and effective subterfuge. it might be more accurate to say that US govt is of the govt, by the govt, for the govt.

      in practice, public property belongs to the elite, as defined by the gestapo, both arbitrarily and capriciously.

    • inquisitor

      It seems that only applies during normal business hours, not if you are a walking pedestrian on a public easement and not if you are taking photos out in public.

      And only on the third Thursday of ever odd calendar month, in summer, when the temperature is over 75 degrees during a solar eclipse…and only after you get permission in advance following you blowing some badged authoritarian homo.

  • Mitch McKenzie

    When the sun hits the troopers nose just right under that hat, it resembles a snout.

  • Ronnie Drury

    Grunert, you have got to have the sorest back in the world sporting those enormous cojones. I clicked on the 1st video and saw it was 24 minutes long and said to myself “GEEZ”. Best 24 minutes of my life. The LEO’s squirming in the grass making up law and the SHP chewing his gum faster and faster. You are the man…

    • Ron

      Yeah I was thinking just how long is that mans gum going to last out.

  • matism

    Let me know when you’re through playing their “games”.

  • ben dover

    I just watched officer’s Moe, Larry, and Curly, get butt f**ked on the internet for the whole world to see.

    • inquisitor

      The bald terminator nerd especially volunteered himself for anal insertion of the big 12 inch…sideways.

  • nosepicker

    Why does this surprise anyone ? Harry Reid called 120 million Americans “domestic terrorists”.

  • nosepicker

    The Department of Justice under Obama and Holder labeled a Fox News journalist a “criminal co conspirator” in a sealed affidavit for merely reporting on a story. They tapped his phone and all of his families phones too. Even read all of his emails.

  • http://www.policemisconduct.net Film The Police Always

    Vote Libertarian before it too late. Republicans & Democrats are supporting this out of control bullshit we are all witnessing now.

  • hazy

    Mr. Grunert, you are very articulate. Your video is a good example of how people should handle a police interrogation. You laid good groundwork if you ever decided to sue them for unlawful search and seizure as their argument for the detainment was circular.

    If their police campus is closed to the public the most they should be able to do is demand that you leave, anything else is an infringement of the 4th amendment if they can’t articulate a law that has, was or about to be broken.

    • inquisitor

      I did not see the officers conduct an unlawful search or seizure of property during this exchange.
      Did I miss something?

      What I thought I saw was violation of a citizen’s 1st amendment right, unlawful-illegal detention or a perhaps even a kidnapping, harassment and physical battery by armed assailants.

      Perhaps a public records request for a copy of the police report may find some misrepresentations or lies and the correspondence or email referring this incident to the joint terrorism task force may also uncover some misrepresentations or lies.
      Which may prove to also be criminal acts.

      • hazy

        illegal detainment falls under the 4th amendment.

        • inquisitor

          …and the unlawful search and seizure you spoke of is where in the video?

          • hazy

            Detainment and arrest are both police powers that “search and seize”. If the basis for using either of those police powers are done with an illegal basis(i.e.- no PC or RAS) then that is a violation of the 4th amendment.

          • inquisitor

            Thanks for that clarification hazy.

          • Guest

            Okay, so just scratch the “search” part. It was just an unlawful seizure.

          • inquisitor

            I would agree…of “person”.

  • Kirkus1964

    These LEOs are so dumb it’s almost painful to watch.

    • matism

      Not “dumb”. Corrupt. They would only be “dumb” if they did things such as this and were HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

    • n4zhg

      Albany NY is the location of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, which declared in a case that you can be too smart to be law enforcement.

  • hazy

    Using Terry v. Ohio to argue with cops that the detainment is illegal is probably not the way to go. It is a draconian case law that got pushed through because of corruption and eviscerated probable cause.

    The threshold of reasonable suspicion is absurdly low. Anyone doing any lawful activity could be detained under reasonable suspicion if a cop is crafty enough to word his suspicion properly.

    Maybe in the future this case law will be seen as fascist and probable cause will be reinstated as the true threshold.

    • inquisitor

      And yet, despite the low threshold of this fascist draconian law, despite the officers’ repeated attempts to craftily word their suspicions properly, the officers were unable to articulate reasonably which crime he was suspected of having committed, was committing or was about to commit.

      They never mentioned the crime of trespassing, as there tends to have to be something posted regarding no trespassing, or first you are trespassed and your return onto property is the a crime. Other officer even tried to compare this situation to being on private property which was quickly shut down as irrelevant and a moot point.

      One officer mentioned suspicion of burglary, but that was in order to justify his being provided with a physical ID after the detainee had already legally identified himself repeatedly and not as the actual reason for his detainment. It was his failure to provide physical ID is why they stated he was being detained…not knowing who he really was.

      One officer mentioned walking in the roadway and blocking traffic was disorderly conduct. Yet the video evidence shows he was on the public easement and not in the roadway, yet the officer states that it is just semantics and is the same as being in the roadway. So now not being in the roadway is being in the roadway according to officer logic. He was not cited or arrested for that or any alleged crime.

      No arrest and plenty of solid video evidence dispelling officers’ claims.
      Sounds like it is working fine in this instance.

      • Guest

        ” the officers were unable to articulate reasonably which crime he was suspected of having committed, was committing or was about to commit.”

        “No arrest and plenty of solid video evidence dispelling officers’ claims.Sounds like it is working fine in this instance.”

        I guess if you think that any cop should be able to kidnap anyone for any reason, then yes, it is working fine.

    • MrDamage

      IMO the Terry case is used to justify detentions that in no way meet the Terry standard. The officer in Terry developed a suspicion that a specific crime was being contemplated based upon specific facts that clearly supported that suspicion and it is upon this basis that the Terry detention was upheld. By contrast, detentions such as this are based on nothing more than the officer’s “hunch” that something is amiss (i.e. the individual in question is insufficiently cognizant of the government’s awesome power) and their assertion that the photographer’s actions give them suspicion that he was contemplating a burglary literally made me laugh out loud.

      The problem is the inability of people whose rights are violated in this fashion to convince a prosecutor to prosecute the offenders with violation of 18 us code § 242 “Deprivation Of Rights Under Color Of Law” to compel the offenders to justify their “suspicions” before a court of law. The offenders should be facing criminal justice, not (just) civil rights violations

    • Guest

      “Anyone doing any lawful activity could be detained under reasonable suspicion if a cop is crafty enough to word his suspicion properly.”

      He doesn’t even have to be crafty. As long as the cop doesn’t use the the exact phrase, “I had a hunch,” he is good to go to kidnap anyone for any reason he cares to invent, and there ain’t a damn traitorous police superior, DA or judge that will hold him accountable.

      • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

        Incorrect.

        As soon as he says “I had a hunch” he losses qualified immunity and the case. That’s settled case law in all circuits.

        • LibertyEbbs

          Finals be gettin’ to you, bro. He specifically stated those words would be the only ones to dissolve the QI.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Yeah, you’re right. Finals are over (at last), but I started a seminar class today, which, since it is a Saturday class in the summer, meets all day in order to cover the material. The prof crams about two weeks of class down our throats each time, plus it is our rigorous writing class. So in short, my brain was fried for the day and I misread it.

          • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

            5 rosaries, 1 hour pro-bono work with publicdefenders office, and hang swildert.

            jesus forgives you.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            I’m glad… lol

          • LibertyEbbs

            Hope your semester ended well. I seriously think that you would make a fantastic defense attorney due to your extensive experience with how the other side works. Any thoughts about specialization yet?

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            I plan on doing criminal defense and 1983 work.

          • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

            that sounds fabulous. be sure to grow that police/govt misconduct torte industry as much as possible. who knows? maybe it will actually help to spur some reforms. When/if in florida, maybe hookup with those morgan, morgan, colling, gilbert, stewart, fawcett-majors ambulance-chasers for a spell. They seem to know the ropes.

            if it makes sense for you to put in some more time on the darkside, be sure to do as much constructive IA/sanitation work as possible. i.e., aggressively pursue every filthy judge, DA/SA/FP, gestapo-goon that you can.

            just watch your back.

            if you have to hang them all, no worries. god will sort them out.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            “if you have to hang them all, no worries. god will sort them out.”

            LOL, sorry, I can’t do that. I’m not catholic.

          • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

            neither are most catholics

        • Guest

          Yes. What I posted basically agrees with this. Although, I disagree with your “anything similar” part. I think it would have to be awfully, awfully similar, before anyone in the system put up any fuss about another police perpetrated kidnapping. By the way, having the reading comprehension of a flea and being a lawyer doesn’t make for a great combination. Although I have no doubt you’ll fit right in.

        • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

          i normally find your comments articulate and reasonably intelligent, but in this instance your reading comprehension does seem a bit suboptimal.

          Make sure your head is a bit more clear before the bar exam. You might be the only grown-up here, don’t let us down.

  • twice22

    And its so painfully clear that the officer with the stripped tie is probably working with foreign terrorists and climbing the ranks in the US in order to carry out an attack. STILL they are focusing on this citizen who isn’t breaking any laws.

    • inquisitor

      And here are those very foreign terrorists he is working with…

      https://www.google.com/#q=law+

      • twice22

        Either your link is broken or you are trying to say the US law is terroristic? I don’t think the US Law is at all a terroristic, I love America and I love American law, which is why I really hate when people attempt to harrass, punish, or prison people who have followed the law. Our law allows for Uniqueness in Americans which promotes the growth and inventive power of our fellow Americans. To investigate law abiding citizens for being unique (doing something unusual) is unamerican. This officer was trying to punish a law abiding citizen who was followng the laws and in the process degraded the value of Police in the eyes of Americans, and degraded the united states laws just any any terrorist would want to. Since we live in a country now where we investigate and harass and threaten law abiding citizens for their legal activities I think its important to say just as he reasonably suspects the cameraman for breaking a law I also have the same amount of evidence to reasonably suspect that officer with the stripped tie of hidden ties to terrorism and planning an attack on our country from within. Doesn’t it make sense to lock him and his family up until we know for sure?

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  • whew!

    Mathew Gilbert should be charged with impersonating a police officer.

    • inquisitor

      But a damn good impression of a grade-a…asshole.

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  • dickgosinya48

    At 22, this guy is way ahead of the game.

  • dravo1

    How can Mr. Gilbert be employed by both the FBI and the NY State Police?? The business card is misleading and I suspect that’s intentional. Matt should have asked to see the shield and ID to find out. The FBI logo is shown to try to bolster the officers importance and intimidate the uninformed.

    • inquisitor

      That whole thing was explained down below in another post.

  • inquisitor

    Burglars always pose as journalists and go for robbing law enforcement facilities loaded with cops and security cameras during daylight hours.
    That is…reasonable.

  • ray brown

    You might want to start wearing a body cam with live stream-you’re going to be waylaid.

  • http://dailygrackle.wordpress.com NoelArmourson

    How wonderful it is that five out of five NY State Police officers failed this test.

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  • Cyndi Rolla

    He didn’t just go film cops, he walked right into the hornets’ nest! I was a bit apprehensive just taking pictures of little stuff, like a courthouse, in a little nowhere town.

    • Necron 99

      I can relate, Iive in podunk nowhere and it is intimidating filming the cops around a courthouse. This guy has some major balls.

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  • Kafir

    Since terrorists like to photograph things they intend to destroy, I can understand the cops’ uneasiness. If he wanted to take such pictures, would it have been so hard to let them know up front what he was doing? I think the guy was trying to force a confrontation and he got one.

    • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

      you’re right, gustav. they should have shot him for his insolence.

      • rust

        And after shooting him, place a gun in his hand, go find his dog, shoot it, search his pockets for cash, confiscate it and tase his mother a few times for good measure. That’s a good Enforcer!

    • Eduardo Blanco

      So we should let the threat of terrorism trump our rights?
      If so, the terrorists have already won.

      • Kafir

        No, I’m saying we should use some common sense. Law enforcement is very wary of people taking pictures so we should let them know what we’re doing before we do it. If they say no, then it becomes a matter of rights.

        • Guest

          You’re free to do your part in welcoming the growing police state. I choose not to join you.

        • inquisitor

          Next time you think of posting here, you should get my permission first.

        • kraz

          To be honest, the fact that law enforcement may be wary of people taking pictures does not concern me at all. That’s their problem and they need to get over it.

    • Guest

      Did you watch the video? At 1:20 he says very calmly and clearly, “I am a journalist gathering content for a story.” He must have said that about a dozen times more after that.

      It seems that people like you are being conditioned and scared to believe that doing just about anything is the same as intentionally trying to provoke a poor, unsuspecting, well meaning police officer.

      • Kafir

        Right, but that was after they came out. Now, imagine if he had gone into the building, presented his press credentials, and said he was going to take some pictures. They would have left him alone.

        • Guest

          My goodness. What happened to you to make you feel that you need the government’s prior permission to exercise your first amendment right to record in public?

          • Kafir

            I didn’t say that. I said the guy should have let them know beforehand. Now, if they said “No, you can’t do that” then I think he should have made a rights issue out of it. We also have the right of assembly but most cities require a permit before a large gathering. I’m not advocating a permit for photography, just using common sense. You know someone will freak out if they catch you taking photographs of something so doesn’t it make sense to say something to them before the freakout?

          • Guest

            No. It doesn’t make any sense to me. But if you want to go notifying everyone that you’re about to record something in public, go right ahead. I don’t believe I need to inform on myself before I exercise my Constitutional rights.

        • Frank Talk

          Can you show me how the First Amendment applies only to journalists with press credentials? I thought it applied to every American citizen.

          Freedom of the “press” was not written to mean what we think of as the press, i.e., the media. The “press” referred to anyone’s ability to publish materials without government approval or censorship.

          Anyone can grab a camera and a notebook and gather content for a story. It does not need to be published or disseminated. You want to gather information, go right ahead.

    • Chris

      “Since terrorists like to photograph things they intend to destroy”
      Would you care to back up that claim with a source?

      • Necron 99

        Was wondering the same. Are terrorist to stupid to install Google Earth?

      • Kafir

        Regardless of whether they do or not, the cops think they do. The guy should have informed them before he started taking pictures.

        • LibertyEbbs

          Actually, the cops do not think this. They are trained to pretend that they do think this when engaging photogs, but the vast majority know it is total BS. I mean, it is a laughable premise on its face so even the majority of LEO’s don’t actually believe it.

        • Voice-Of-Concern

          You mean like at the beach, when you are taking pictures of your family or friends, you should contact and inform every person that might be in a shot, that you are taking pictures?

          See how ridiculous that looks? If one is in public, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy.

          Another aspect of the “have to tell them”, is the implied need to have their agreement to do so. Which is flatly not the case.

          If I can see you from a public space, I can take your picture.. and I don’t need to tell you or ask your permission.

          • Kafir

            The people on the beach will not care nor think you’re up to something nefarious. They also don’t have the legal license to arrest you, taser you, beat you, put you in handcuffs and detain you.

            Listen, I agree with everything you say. You have the right to take photographs and nobody in a public place has a right to privacy. You also don’t need permission to take pictures. I’m just saying that in certain circumstances, it is best to let people know beforehand. If they object, you can say “Well, my informing you was just a courtesy. I’m taking the pictures anyway.”

            Nothing in that article explained why the guy was taking pictures of police buildings. Maybe he was studying the architecture. Maybe he was documenting for posterity or maybe, just maybe, he wanted a confrontation with the police. If that is the case, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for the guy. It may be his right but if you go around using your rights to pick fights, maybe you deserve what you get.

    • n4zhg

      You’re full of crap.

      • Kafir

        And you are crap. See? Two can play at the ad hominem game. Your turn.

    • Kaemaril

      Even if true (and that’s a relatively big IF), one would imagine that – being terrorists – they’d like their surveillance to go undetected. As such, their surveillance would probably be conducted a tad more surreptitiously than standing around in plain sight, in the open, taking video.

      • Kafir

        It wouldn’t be the first time they used our freedoms against us.

        • Kaemaril

          Seriously?!

          Terrorist A: My friend, you must take recon photographs of our target, even though most if not all of the stuff we’d need is already on the internet. Be very sure you are careful and use unobtrusive techniques and equipment, you must not be seen! We don’t want the hated Americans to suspect anything!

          Terrorist B: Nonsense! I’m just going to stand out in the middle of the street with a dirty great DSLR taking photographs in plain sight of anyone who might be passing by.

          Terrorist A: Are you insane?!?

          Terrorist B: No, I just want to use their freedoms against them! Mwahahahaha!

  • ray brown

    If filming facilities is such a real and present danger why aren’t No Photography signs posted? It’s a fine line between security and the First Amendment.

    • rust

      There aint no “FINE LINE” between “security” and the First Amendment. No clown with a badge can tell you different.

      • Kafir

        Since when does the first amendment cover taking pictures? That guy who went to jail for taking up-skirt pics of women on the subway would like to know.

        • Frank Talk

          Your lack of understanding of the First Amendment is stupefying. And if you equate upskirting with public buildings, your problems are deeper than I thought.

        • Kaemaril

          New to this site, I take it?

          • Kafir

            Yes.

          • Kaemaril

            OK. Well … see ya!

            If you actually figure out that actually, yes, photography IS protected by the first amendment and that having to go and ask permission from the authorities in order to shoot in public should not be the default, why not come on back?

            In the mean time, have a pleasant life.

          • rust

            Keep sucking on that Enforcer cock, skippy! Sooner or later you’re gonna have to either bite down or swallow the load.

  • ray brown

    Wear a body cam and live stream video. You’re going to be waylaid.

  • Glenn

    Good Lord! Paranoid bunch of asses.

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  • Marcus Antonius

    Do you have a search warrant? No ? Do you have an arrest Warrant ?
    No ? Am I being detained ? No ?
    You are trespassing. Take a hike Government thug !
    Sic Semper Tyrannis !

  • Marcus Antonius

    Wake Up, People ! We have had a Full Fledged Police State implanted on this nation since 9/11. The United States is no longer a Constitutional Republic but a Marxist/Fascist Rogue Outlaw entity. It has become the enemy of the American People.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis !

  • kraz

    Good job at keeping your head with these morons. I am so tired of hearing these overpaid pigs refer to our property as theirs. Like every other video a cop says to get of my property or something like it.

  • Tony Loro

    NPPA card with name. Blow them away.

  • kraz

    I’m truly getting disgusted with this shit in the US. I saw a video on Yahoo News the other day and in it was a picture of a man with the US Constitution in his pocket and a stick-on name tag that said “Hi, my name is Domestic Terrorist.” It just flashed quickly during the video which I think was about the Bundy ranch but it’s this kind of subtle brainwashing that goes on every day.

    I’d love to get my hands on some training manuals from PDs. I bet it’s filled with this bullshit.

    • LibertyEbbs

      Yep. “Constitutionalist” is now a derogatory term used in police circles to describe anyone who attempts to assert their rights. That is no accident. The irony vis a vis the constitutional oaths they take when they get their badges, and delegated authority, appears to go way over their heads.

  • steveo

    After spending alot of time watching and reading about the Murrow Bldg bombing by Timothy McVeigh, here are some of my reactions to the historical content. 1) They never photographed the building, why would they, they wanted to be inconspicuous, all they had to do was drive the truck up to the building and leave it there. 2) McVeigh did scope out Federal Buildings, but just by walking around which, contrary to this case, doesn’t seem to attract attention, unless accompanied by a camera 3) McVeigh hid an old getaway car without license plates a few blocks from the Murrow Bldg, with a sign on it, in his handwriting, that said, don’t tow me, I’m on my way to get the plates. To me that might be a little more suspicious than a guy walking around getting story content.

    • Ordinary Citizen

      One of the buildings McVeigh surveilled was the classic Federal Building here in Omaha.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FederalOfficeBuildingOmahaNE.jpg

      Like all federal buildings, it’s completely legal to photograph or video the building. It’s being renovated into another downtown hotel, set to open soon.

      Had he gone north instead of south, we’d have a memorial and large empty space there now.

      • dickgosinya48

        Bad