Home / California Cop Arrests Man for Video Recording “Private Cars” from Public Sidewalk (Updated)

California Cop Arrests Man for Video Recording “Private Cars” from Public Sidewalk (Updated)

A Southern California police officer arrested a man for video recording “private cars” from a public sidewalk.

The Covina police officer named K. Counts then handcuffed the man when he refused to provide identification, claiming that they were looking for a suspect on the loose, and that it could have very well been the man with the camera who decided to return to the crime of the scene, knowing he was being sought.

But from the video, it didn’t appear to be much of a manhunt.

There were no helicopters or cops searching yards. There were just a group of cops talking to some citizens from several yards away when the man, who goes by Damon Enz on Youtube, but identified himself as “David” to the officer.

The cop then told him he had the right to pat him down for “officer safety reasons.”

David obliged to let himself be patted down, which was when the cop knocked the camera out of his hand and handcuffed him.

David’s mother came out and picked up the camera, continuing to record, pleading with the cop to release her son, but the cop insisted that he was “obstructing my investigation.”

Another cop came up and walked towards his mother, which is when the video stops.

The incident took place June 30, 2014. David was incarcerated for six hours. Charges have since been dropped.

From his Youtube description:

This video contains content of me being harassed by the Covina police department for filming on a public sidewalk this officer was out of line I was ASSULTED, KIDNAPPED, and my personal property was STOLEN from me because the officers pride was hurt what he did was wrong don’t be afraid to hold corrupt police accountable for their actions!! I was also charged for obstruction and false I.D. even though his job wasnt being obstructed and i provided him with my true name even tho i didnt half to!!! The charges were dropped so the department can cover up their corruption!! ive been harrased by them multiple times for petty things what this officer did was commit multiple felonies and he needs to be charged!!!!!!

But it’s clear that officer, first name possibly Kenneth, had no reasonable suspicion that David was committing a crime. Just because he purported there was a suspect loose, there should need to be at least a matching description for the cop to proceed with a pat-down.

Counts is just another bully with a badge, knowing that even though the charges against David will likely be dismissed (they were), he was able to shut him down from recording.

Even though the charges were dropped, you can still contact Covina Police Chief Kim Raney at (626) 384-5600 or kraney@covinaca.gov or you might be able to reach the cop at kcounts@covinaca.gov.

UPDATE: Chief Kim Raney responded to PINAC’s request for comment with the following statement:

Press Release Document-Chief Raney Statement 7.23.14

About Carlos Miller

Carlos Miller is founder and publisher of Photography is Not a Crime, which began as a one-man blog in 2007 to document his trial after he was arrested for photographing police during a journalistic assignment. He is also the author of The Citizen Journalist's Photography Handbook, which can be purchased through Amazon.
  • Megan

    Officer Cunts needs to get fired.

    • Rick Hiltz

      shot in the head

      • Sam Mdws

        There really is nothing wrong with this sentiment.

      • DallasCynic

        Physical violence is never the answer. I have advocated personal officer responsibility. They lose the bank account, the pension, the house, lake house, F-950 MegaDuty, 95″ 3D LCD HD TV, the boat/Seedoo, gun collection and the dog. In short everything they care about before the public kicks in.
        Physical violence creates a martyr. Financial violence creates this:

        Daddy, I want to go to college.
        Dear, you can’t go to college. Daddy was a putz and did something stupid and had to pay for it. Now eat your recycled wallpaper paste. Mommy got you a bag from Target to wear today.
        Thank you, Mommy. Daddy, you stink.

        • Rick Hiltz

          do you think they care we use their laws to prove them wrong in court and in public and they ignore it and convict any ways its all about control and until you realize there are more of us then them and start showing that by use of force when force is used against you .well you`ll always be no better then a rat in a maze

          • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

            Let us know how that’s working for you.

          • Rick Hiltz

            did you read the 2005 supreme court decision where they state you have the right to resist an unlawful arrest and even take the officers life if you feel he is threating your life > And in these stops who has all the weapons

          • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

            1. In most states it is not legal to resist an unlawful arrest.

            2. Even if it were lawful, you’re almost certain to make thing worse for yourself because you’ll be dead or the DA, judge and jury will believe the cops version of what happened.

            3. I’d hate for some fool relying on your ignorant legal advice to get himself killed or thrown in prison for a decade or two.

            4. I suspect you’re the typical keyboard warrior, who’s happy to talk tough and tell others that they should fight, but when the shit hits the fan, you’d be cowering.

            5. Let me know how it works out for you.

          • Rick Hiltz

            I know you would prefer they bend over and take one for the team i don`t offer advice supreme court trumps state supreme court every time…………….http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            ROTFLMAO. This is your 2005 case information? That’s the site you are using? LMAO. That’s too funny. We’ve gone over this here numerous times.

            First, go here http://photographyisnotacrime.com/forums/topic/how-to-read-case-law-from-the-internet/#post-23899, on the forum part of PINAC. Second, go here for more detailed info http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/2013/05/05/the-common-law-right-to-resist-at-least-according-to-contitution-org/, on my blog.

            Constitution.org is written by a whackjob, Jon Roland.

          • Rick Hiltz

            “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting
            officer’s life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Except that quote is nowhere in the opinion.

            Nice try for a moron.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            BTW, the case reporter is here. https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=le87AAAAIAAJ&rdid=book-le87AAAAIAAJ&rdot=1 The opinion starts on page 968.

            Let me know when you find that quote.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Provide a citation to the case.

            You won’t, because there was no such decision in 2005 or at any other time.

          • Rick Hiltz

            LOL are you really a law student

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            See – I knew you would not provide anything. That’s because there isn’t anything to provide. Are you sure you’re not a whackjob?

          • Rick Hiltz

            can`t you fucking read or do i need to record a cd for you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            A real citation, not from a whackjob. BTW, I addressed this site at your other post.

          • John

            Ttry claiming an arrest is unlawful and resisting and see how well it works out for you.

          • Rick Hiltz

            well who is going to agree or side with you when it happens are you going to ask the guy in the halloween costume for permission . IF YOU BELIEVE ITS UNLAWFUL THEN YOU ACT TO PROTECT YOURSELF USING AS MUCH FORCE AS YOU DEEM NECESSARY

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Cool. Then you get to pose for the cop’s latest drawing.

          • DallasCynic

            I think when it hits their own wallet, they will pay attention. As it is now if they get sued, the taxpayers who pay their salaries, pay the bill. There are no personal consequences for the officer who violates someone’s rights.
            Jeremy Bentham stated that for a punishment to be effective, the pain must be worse than the pleasure derived from the offense. He did not state it must be physical pain. Financial pain does not create martyrs.
            I will never accept that violence is the only answer

          • FedUp

            At a minimum, we need to pay police lawsuit costs out of the police department’s budget.
            If they can’t afford new taxpayer funded toys, or better yet, the whole bunch of them has to take a $100 a month pay cut when their behavior costs the city money, then they have an incentive to change.

          • JoanneDKenworthy

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          • Jeff Landrum

            Liking your own post is just about a douchey as posting these stupid fucking work at home Google jobs. If you really were making that kind of money, you wouldn’t be telling anybody, especially on YouTube. Time to get back up on that pole and pay your rent at the trailer park Joanne…

          • Joseph Edward Bodden

            go fuck yourself, I am celibate.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            You do realize that the officer doesn’t pay the judgment, right? The city pays it because the officer is indemnified by the city.

            The taxpayers end up covering the costs.

          • DallasCynic

            That is what needs to change. They need to have some personal responsibility and liability. Any law can be changed.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Go for it. I’m not going to hold my breath, though. Every police union will line up to testify against it.

          • DallasCynic

            Of course they will. That is why I think it is a good idea. The sad thing is they will go to bat for what appears to be a very low percentage of officers, much like doctors will defend the few who are incompetent

          • Rick Hiltz

            the whole fucking system is set up to protect those assholes what else would you expect ….but dead cops and lots of them will make them think twice

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Oh goody. You are a whackjob.

          • hazy

            Relax ECLS. There’s lots of those out there. You saw plenty of them when you walked the beat, remember?

          • Rick Hiltz

            it should come out of the police budget

          • Jared Gaiser

            It is pussies like some of you here that are giving our police and the government the power to violate our civil liberties. You are right about only 1 thing, it probably won’t help the situation if you fight back against an unlawful arrest, but what gains are ever obtained by not doing anything at all? Your individual situation pales in comparison to the big picture. We would not have to fear submitting to false arrests (the big picture) if it were the general consensus of the population that we are to hold the police and the government accountable for their actions instead of excusing them and hailing these thugs heroes in the name of “public safety”. Instead, people are indoctrinated and brainwashed into believing that the government in the United States has the authority to dictate these terms.

            You ABSOLUTELY have the right to defend yourself against a police officer acting outside of their authority. Not only do you have the right, but as an American citizen, you have the obligations. If you are not up to the task due to your rubbery spines and/or rotting brains, then it would be in your better interest to sit there while shutting the f*ck up and letting people who still have the seeds to stand up for YOUR RIGHTS handle this. Your pathetic drivel simply empowers the injustice.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Yeah! Tell that loser how tough he needs to be, from the safety of your home, barricaded behind your keyboard.

          • Jared Gaiser

            You want to go outside and talk about it?

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Sure.

          • Jared Gaiser

            You should change your name to ExCop-FutureEXLawStudent. What is the point of using your “title” as an alias anyways? Not getting enough attention from your internet friends?

            There is a difference between little maggots like you that occupy chat rooms and real people like me that check in once in a while but have the full capacity to smash any and every problem that comes our way, including those that are brought on by the police. You may get away with your pathetic little game around your stupid friends and the average idiot, but you know full well the only reason you are such a fuck on the internet is because you are so pathetic and worthless in reality. Anytime you want a personal demostration, feel free to look me up.

            What kind of stupid bitch, using a fake name on the internet, tells a guy who has the balls to speak his mind using his real name that he is hiding behind his computer.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Sure.

          • Jared Gaiser

            Wow…you really are the master of debate. I totally don’t get how the people here don’t take you more seriously.

            Let me guess… Your level of pathetic includes that part where you feel a sense of accomplishment by getting the last word no matter how pointless and irrelevant it may be.

          • Jared Gaiser

            Funny how the roaches scatter and run away when you shine a little light on their shady operations.

          • hazy

            You’re a crazy person. You’re exactly the type of individual that causes cops to become vicious psychopaths.

          • Jared Gaiser

            My willingness and ability to stand up for my rights is not an excuse for a cop to be a vicious psychopath. Your ignorance and inability to act is what allows the justification for cops to become vicious psychopaths. Either way, there is no justification for a cop to violate the constitutional rights of US citizens.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Oh goody, another internet commando:

          • Jared Gaiser

            I think we already went over this. it is pretty obvious you should be getting to your studying..Mr. Law Student.

          • DallasCynic

            Gentlemen, slagging each other does not serve our interests. We have to have a united civilized face to get anything done

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Reading garbage that is incorrect does not serve our interests either. These sovereign and voluntarist whackjobs are basically anarchists, who only want to obey the laws that they chose, and ignore the rest under the mantra of some BS or another.

            They put stuff up that someone will read and believe, and in some of these cases it could get the reader killed or on death row.

            I’ll put up correct information, but I’ll also respond to them how I want to. In bozo’s case, that includes pointing out what a putz he really is.

          • DallasCynic

            I’m simply calling for unity on our part so we can then work to change things. I think you’ll agree that will be very hard to do, but doable

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Not a problem. As soon as the whackjobs agree with me, we’ll have unity.

          • WOrkingTaxpayer

            What does one do when your local 9/11 Dispatch informed police “THEY VIDEO TAPE POLICE : they are dangerous…if you make a 9/11 CALL.. Is that not intentional endangerment? How about failing to answer 9/11 calls? Do not state: file an Internal Investigation either–done!
            RESPOND aes.usa@live.com

          • Rick Hiltz

            your rights do not come from that pc of paper they existed before gov`t was ever created

          • Jared Gaiser

            The declaration of independence and colonial leadership was determined in 1776. The Constitution was written in 1787 and the bill of rights (which became part of the Constitution) was ratified in 1792.

            My rights DO come from that piece of paper and no other pieces of paper are justified to dictate otherwise.

          • Rick Hiltz

            have you ever asked a cop about his training i mean the choke hold is illegal yet its still taught they re told the most important thing is that they go home to their families each nite not you . They are told when you pull your weapon empty the clip into the suspect you don`t want him/her to fire a shot at you if you only wound him thats why you see the hail of gun fire directed to individuals . Most importantly they lack the ability to think and reason just like the military they are told that ithinking will get you killed so react and we will brush everything undere the carpet and always remember the phrase “I was in fear for my life” its a catch all to get them uff

          • Rick Hiltz

            they are trained to be morons with badges they get what they deserve

          • Rick Hiltz

            lets use the proper phrasing according the bullies in blue shirts manual” I was in fear for my life”

          • Rick Hiltz

            want to come visit me and find out fuck nuts

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            OK, go out and stand in your back yard, I’ll be right over.

          • Rick Hiltz

            get on a plane fly to Detroit and then cross the border into Canada go about an hour north and drive to Chatham Ont

          • Rick Hiltz

            did you know as a lawyer your an officer of the court and the oath you take to the bar means you must protect the law society ahead of your clients at all times . That if you violate the law societies regulations you will get disbarred that if you enter the bar you will work under duress every day for the rest of your life During the 1600`s lawyers were called Grammarians an d were in fact exiled because they wanted to take over and force their system on us ……………they will hang from trees one day and i will enjoy it

          • Rick Hiltz

            is that a picture of you and your boyfriend chicken phoquer

          • hazy

            No, don’t fight the police. You will be killed. Use the courts to find recourse. ECLS is absolutely right. Stop telling people to act with violence, that will only give the corrupt police the tools they need to defend themselves for a civil rights violation.

            There’s been many people who were killed and all the police have to say is, “They made a furtive gesture” and the union and DA will protect them tooth and nail.

            If a cop is going to arrest you, don’t talk back and don’t argue. Just be calm and remain silent. If a cop’s understanding of a law is flawed or horribly perverted, you are not going to educate them in such a short time span.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Why argue with the whackjob? LOL, he wanted to meet me outside, so I stepped out and waited 10 minutes. He never showed up.

            I suppose that he thinks that he’s big enough and bad enough to take on officer after officer after officer. At some point he’ll go to far and just be dead. If he has the guts to actually do it, which is doubtful.

          • Rick Hiltz

            thats just it isn`t it the big blue gang hs to be called because one guy can`t do it alone can he unless he is dealing with some one that doesn`t know his rights . you seem to use the word whack lot did that picture of you and your chicken phoquing boy friend get you all worked up …Are you touching your self and masturbating when you right this stuff seems as though you have whacking on your mind

          • Rick Hiltz

            I told you where u could find me whats the problem you having trouble locating a map

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Different whackjob, fool.

          • Rick Hiltz

            fuck the police they all need a bullet to the head

          • n4zhg

            The only way that will happen is if police unions are suddenly listed as terrorist organizations.

  • LREKing

    Off topic, but it doesn’t just happen in the U.S.:

    Cop suspended after threatening to “knock out” bystander during arrest

    http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/VIDEO-Staffordshire-Police-suspend-PC-threatened/story-21739240-detail/story.html

    • Jared Gaiser

      This cop should have been arrested and charged with assault just like any other citizen would have been.

  • borderraven

    City council meetings are recorded and broadcast over local cable TV. Go speak during public contents, Look only at the Mayor. Get an agenda and card in the lobby.

  • C. G

    Apparently their investigation was not that important if they committed so much resources on detaining this person and didn’t call for backups. Very strange indeed.

    • Poster999

      If the guy would have cooperated in the slightest instead of acting like a jerk and worrying about getting his YouTube video, just answered the questions, it would have gone away. He was NOT arrested for filming cars. He said later that he had a right to, and the cop said “absolutely.” He was detained because the cops were looking for someone, and this guy refused to let them know that he wasn’t the one they were looking for. He gave absolutely every indicating of being suspicious.

      • Ryan

        The only intelligent answer I’ve seen on this page so far.

        • Guest

          That’s just the way it goes for some. The deeper you stick your tongue up a cop’s ass, the more intelligent you appear.

          • Heisenberg

            Ryan is just a moron or in the police union:)

      • jcfromnj

        What your brain that is connected to your ass lead you to that conclusion ?
        It’s Contempt of Cop and and I’m the Alpha male here.
        It takes practice, but David showed fear and uncertainty, and the preditor cop
        smelled that.
        Of course the dropped the charges, now it’s time to make your bones and make his life just as miserable as he made yours.

      • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

        Since when did the USA become Nazi Germany and you have to “show your papers” whenever LE demands it? Fact is the guy was not doing anything wrong, but the cop didn’t like him filming and that’s what caused the cop to initially approach him. Then the cop didn’t like it when the guy refused to kowtow to the cop’s badge and answer his questions, so he illegally detained and arrested him. If the cop doesn’t value the Constitution, then he should find some other line of employment.

      • Joseph Murray

        You search for a suspect by walking around randomly asking people for ID? Unless they knew the suspects name how would that help? If they did know the suspect’s name they would have had a picture from his driver’s license file and would have known him on sight. In other words, you have no point, stop apologizing for crooked cops.

      • Big C

        Do the cops pay you or are you just independently stupid?

      • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

        your comment looks pretty suspicious, gustav.

        you might need investigating.

      • kraz

        Right… those “private cars.”

      • inquisitor

        Anything you say can be used by the police against you…and is never used by police to defend you.

      • hazy

        California is one of the states that does not have a stop & ID law on the books. You have the right to remain silent and that right allows you the ability to not cooperate with police including not providing your name to them if they demand it. If they decide to arrest you anyways under flimsy suspicion, then they are breaking the law because they have no PC or RAS.

      • Julius

        No. He was not required to give his ID. He was not required to submit to a search. The officer broke the law, not him. The civilian acting like a jerk is irrelevant.

      • Heisenberg

        He complied with the unlawful detention, the guy did more than enough, also the goon should have gotten a description of the suspect not just detaining anyone he sees.

      • anonrp

        Looking for someone does not mean anyone! The officer should have started this with did you happen to get anything on video but he decided to go on a power trip, and now, it just show how big of an ass he is. This is a clear case of contempt of cop as the first thing he ask why is he taking video. Second, there is no law on the books to have an ID on you unless you are driving.

        My one question that I dare IA to ask the officer is what penal code did you think the subject did or about to break to give you reasonable articulable suspicion for the stop to meet the standard in Terry v Ohio.

      • Chef Timothy

        Poster999, How’s that Kool-Aid treating you?

        I don’t know about you but I’m gonna need a lot mor Ice to swallow this shit.

      • Jared Gaiser

        You don’t have to cooperate with the Police. The Police have no business making excuses to stop people who are not acting outside of the law. This officer may very well have been looking for somebody, but that does not give him the authority to treat everyone in the area as criminals. That is not how it is supposed to work in America and every single one of you idiots that justifies this kind of crap are only making things worse. You may think of yourselves as high and mighty while hiding behind your computer, but your actions only enable this kind of crap to perpetuate and eventually you will be the victims of your own complacency and stupidity.

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          Uh huh. You tell ‘em, Mr. Internet Commando, sir.

          • Jared Gaiser

            Judging by your pathetic ad hominems you have no real argument to present here. I can tell you get off on being the big mouth on campus, but I assure you that game won’t work on me, maggot.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Nah, I save real arguments for those who know what they’re talking about. Whackjobs not so much.

            Here’s your sign – you may want to shove your head in a lake or something…

          • Jared Gaiser

            Interesting you see me as a whack job. How does the saying go?
            “The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to stupid motherfuckers”? Guess which one you are in this scenario.

            You have no real argument. You are just a little maggot living the illusion that your internet alias and compulsive commenting somehow entitles you to the recognition of internet elite. I can only have sympathy for how agonizing real life must be for you.

  • LREKing

    Apparently “obstructing my investigation” is cop talk for “annoying me by just be being around.”

    It would also be useful if we had the beginning of this story instead of just the end.

    • hazy

      I think if police are able to stop someone due to “you match the description of someone” then they need to furnish that description to the individual they are detaining before demanding any ID.

  • Falutin Free

    It may be too far for him to travel, but Tom Zebra needs to give the Covina PD a taste of TMFZ.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Covina-Police-Department/387323154671077

    http://www.yelp.com/biz/covina-police-department-covina

  • John H Johnson III

    First of all he should asked for his badged number, never gave him his name, and what about the description of the person he is “supposedly” looking for? Did he match? This guy has multiple reasons to sue and if doesn’t he is part of the problem. He could of said yes I am filming private vehicles on a public side walk by the way.

    • jcfromnj

      Had he been more pro active in his response, it might have turned out differently.

      But on the plus side, David now has a golden opportunity to fill his Jacket (201 file) with IA
      dialog and a false arrest charge. This cop obviously has never been on the receiving end of any of this, which is why he is so bold.

      • Tijuana Joe

        What’s the legality of detaining someone
        because they look like a suspect sketch?
        I got detained/arrested for looking like a psycho killer in Boca Raton who I later found out was half my age, and a year had passed since the crime. That surely can’t be legal. Right?

        • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

          Cops need reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime. If they had a description of the suspect and thought you fit the description, I’d think the stop would be legal.

  • ben dover

    The only good cop is one being hung from a tall tree from a short rope

    • anonymous

      This is why PINAC will never be taken seriously by the rest of the world.

      • James

        PINAC will, Ben Dover won’t.

        • Fedup

          PINAC IS, Ben Dover won’t.

      • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

        PINAC already is taken seriously.

        • Guest

          More seriously than many people realize. There are already agents, like excop, for whom PINAC has become a near full time assignment.

          • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

            Suuuure.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Wow! I’m an agent now? Is that a step up from provocateur? When do I get my 00 license? Do I have to carry the puny little Walther?

          • NoelArmourson

            Nah, you get to kick it up to CZ83.

      • inquisitor

        This is why you will never be taken seriously by the rest of the world.
        Such loose associations leading to such condemnations not stemming from the rational.

      • A Default

        Likely a cop trolling to make PINAC look bad.

  • La Blanco Raza

    The guy in this video is a rookie and did a terrible job. All cop watchers should be warned that if you swear needlessly in your video then you are going to turn a lot of people off, including lawyers.
    This guy now has no chance of any lawsuit.

    • jwalsh

      I agree…..

    • jcfromnj

      I wouldn’t go that far, all the elements are there. The facts that he didn’t have his act together doesn’t weigh into the equation. He just needs to get into the answering a question WITH a question tactic down.

    • Big C

      You do know it’s not illegal to swear at police right?

      • La Blanco Raza

        Of course. I also know the thought process that lawyers use in determining which clients and cases to take.
        Lawyers know jurors are not going to like this guy.
        All cop watchers should know that if you plan on suing you better act like someone your grandmother would approve of because juries are filled with them.

        • Sam Mdws

          Since attorneys in $1983 cases can ask for fees apart from the judgment, even a $1 symbolic award by a jury could mean thousands in attorney’s fees.

          • La Blanco Raza

            I’m sorry but you don’t know what you are talking about. What you described is a very very rare event.
            In 99% of cases, the plaintiff and defendant have numerous discussions and offer written settlements before trial.
            If the defendant (police) offer a settlement prior to trial and the plaintiff rejects it they can invoke a Rule 68.
            That means if they offer $50,000 and the victim rejects that amount and you go to a trial, EVEN if you win at trial, if the jury awards LESS than the $50,000 then the VICTIM is responsible for the police attorney fees and court fees…..even if you win.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            It’s even worse if it is filed in state court (which has jurisdiction to here 1983 claims) – California has CCP 998, which adds expert witness costs, plus P loses the right to recover any post-offer costs.

          • DesertRattt

            For clarity and my education, if the state offers $1 on a $250K case, the plaintiff loses all cost recovery from that point forward?

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            No, only if he gets less than what was offered. So if the City makes an offer of $20,000 and the plaintiff rejects it, but only wins $10,000 in damages, then the plaintiff is responsible for the post-offer costs of the City. This could be more than the $10K he won.

          • Sam Mdws

            First, I think it is important to admit that I am not a lawyer. It is also painfully clear that you aren’t either. With the concessions that we are both non-lawyers discussing legal issues, here is why you are wrong:

            A rule 68 isn’t invoked after a trial, it is a written judgment offer that must be filed with the court previous to the start of trial. In this instance it is different from a settlement because a settlement can be confidential and there is no implication of guilt unless other wise stated in the settlement agreement. A rule 68 offer of judgement is public and part of the court record, and since it is a JUDGMENT it is a finding that the defending party is liable. You also have it wrong to say that all costs must be paid. As ECLS notes, it is only the costs incurred AFTER the judgment was rejected (FRCP 68(d): “the offeree must pay the costs incurred AFTER the offer was made). Also, the term costs doesn’t include attorney’s fees in civil rights cases where the plaintiff is awarded ANY judgment. Since $1983 ONLY allows attorney’s fees to a PREVAILING party, even a plaintiff who won $1 is considered to have won over the defendant.

            But my biggest bone to pick with you is that you completely misunderstood my initial comment. You implied that since a plaintiff may not be “jury friendly,” that should deter an attorney from taking the case. An attorney can get a settlement before trial, or if he gets no settlement offer from a hardball attorney, he can push to trial and still get attorney’s fees if they win. Even if it is $1.

        • inquisitor

          Copwatchers don’t “plan” to sue anyone.

      • Rail Car Fan

        Or give them the middle finger telling them they’re number 1…!

        Rail Car Fan

  • Juan Nightstand

    Protection and service at it’s finest.

  • Guest

    “Counts is just another bully with a badge”

    He’s much worse than that. He’s a traitor.

  • http://www.policemisconduct.net Film The Police Always

    If I were his boss, he would be stripped of his gun and badge and would be on desk duty until IA did an investigation. He definitely violated this mans rights and he should be fired for this.

    I sure do hope that this man contacts Daniel (Tom Zebra) so he can use his lawyer to sue as he will win this one.

    • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

      You do realize that Daniel is in a different part of California?

      • Falutin Free

        Covina isn’t too far from the Torrance/Hawthorne/Gardena area TZ films in. About 25 miles.

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          See above.

          • inquisitor

            So what is your legal interpretation of the video concerning the detainment and arrest?

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            More information is needed. What was the offense being investigated? Did the officer actually have a reason to contact or not? On the surface it doesn’t look appropriate, but I can’t make that call with the limited info available.

            California does not have a stop & ID statute, but they use an interference or obstruction charge in the same way.

          • Jared Gaiser

            So you are justifying the misuse of statues relating to interference or obstruction? This officer could have gone about his business instead of trying to be a hard ass. He obstructed and interfered with his own “investigation”. It is utterly retarded that a cop can get away with approaching somebody, not allowing them to walk away and then charging them with obstruction.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Have you always had this difficulty in reading comprehension?

          • Jared Gaiser

            Have you always had this difficulty with providing relevant responses? How about admitting that you are wrong, have you always had problems with that too? How about realizing that the high you get from being a fuck on the internet has no bearing on who you really are? Have you always had a problem with being a compulsive asshole?

            Did it occur to you that if I didn’t understand the context of your comment that maybe you didn’t articulate it properly?

            I am sensing that you are finding yourself in a much more difficult situation than you planned when you started running your mouth in my direction. Your little hit and run one liners are simply fuel for the fire. I am sure you are used to those who don’t have the time, courage or intelligence to keep up with your bullshit just walking away from the conversation, but you bit off a hell of a lot more than you can chew with me, little man.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Or, it could be that, after evaluating your incorrect assessment of the law as to one’s legal authority to resist an unlawful arrest, reading your other responses, and my knowledge of such arguments, that I determined that you don’t have a clue. I commonly refer to these people as whackjobs.

            For example, above you immediately assume that I am advocating the misuse of statutes. Nothing could be further from the truth, nor do you see me literally or figuratively state that. You made that assumption, based on your world view and your incorrect understanding of the law of California.

            I don’t come on this board to feed the whackjobs, nor do I owe them anything.

          • Jared Gaiser

            The majority of the people you are responding to are “whackjobs”. Don’t pretend for a single second that you have “evaluated” anything. Had you actually spent the time to do so, you would not be making the argument that you are.

            I am not “immediately assuming” anything. I am drawing conclusions directly from the comments that you make. My world view has nothing to do with whether or not I am correct about constitutional law. I provided you several quotes and case numbers that back my assertions. You, on the other hand, only provide antagonistic, irrelevant drivel.

            You come on this board to fuel an ego based on a false persona. To think that people think that you owe them something is arrogant and pathetic. You can call people whatever you want, but you can’t hide from reality.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Oh kaayy…..

      • Fedup

        Law degrees are issued by the state. As long as Daniel’s attorney is licensed and bar certified in the state of CA, his exact location does not matter.

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          I understand that the law license is issued by the State Bar (the degree is not). I was under the impression from a post further down that there was a significant distance involved.

          • Falutin Free

            The distance isn’t significant in a car but TZ does his recording while cycling. I do not know if he has a vehicle but the woman he has been recording with lately does so it may be possible.

          • Fedup

            That’s the beauty of this thing they call the internet. I sued the state of FL, in a class action suite, using an attorney I met only once, who has an office nearly 200 miles from my home. Suit is still in progress – Man sues state after getting ticket for flashing his headlights to warn others about speed traps. Yeah, that’s me.

      • hazy

        I don’t think being in different parts of California matters much other than not knowing the specific city/county codes.

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          I was looking at what I thought was a fairly significant distance from a post further down the page. It appears that it is fairly close, so that is not an issue.

          Any lawyer can look up the code info without a problem.

          • Jared Gaiser

            Any person can look up the “code info” without a problem. Your little wannabe almost someday a lawyer status doesn’t put you above anyone.

      • http://www.policemisconduct.net Film The Police Always

        Yup, well aware of this. I just thought it would be a great idea for this guy to get some advice from a guy that been through this a few times already, and maybe his lawyer could recommend a lawyer in his area.

  • jwalsh

    Sent an email to the chief. Love when emails are posted.

  • LibertyEbbs

    While an officer is conducting an investigation the natural, protected rights of all persons in the vicinity are suspended. When did that happen? It wasn’t even in the paper or anything!

    • jcfromnj

      It was a “nothing” investigation. That officer didn’t look like he had his act down too well either.

  • inquisitor

    The photog should have handled this differently.
    And not talking at the police and referring to the officer as Bud while filming would have been step one.

    This officer looks familiar to me.
    I don’t think this is his first civil rights abuse citizen video appearance.

    • A Default

      Listen Bud, contempt of cop is not a crime and when some Bud with a badge starts threatening you for no legal reason it isn’t your job to roll over on your back and pee to make him leave you alone.

      The first 60 secs of the video showed all that you need to know the cop was abusive, wrong and an asshat towards someone who wasn’t doing anything wrong or even suspicious.

      Taking pictures of private cars is not a crime.

      Bud with a badge needs an attitude adjustment.

      • inquisitor

        You argue points I never made.
        Perhaps you are conversing with voices in your head.

  • Guest

    Dave’s not here! =)

    I love hearing from those who proclaim they go out of there way to record cops. The old saying my dad burned into my brain applies here…”Don’t go looking for trouble baby.”

    • Midwinky Scootchpuk

      Actually, “looking for trouble” is bullschitt and exercising your constitutional rights is the American way.

      • Guest

        exactly as I did. he’s still a dipschitt

        • Kerfuffulator

          Dipschitts have the same Constitutionally protected Rights though. That’s how Rights work.

          • Guest

            wow, thanks for setting me straight.

  • OpenMindedPS

    Just a flex of power nothing to see here……

  • Rodney Jackson
    • Fedup

      We can’t have it both ways. If we say we have the right to photograph and film anything that is within public view, then this company has the right to do the same. The fact that they’re cataloging and selling the information is creepy, but ultimately legal and the downside to making everything in public subject to filming.

      The problem, of course is that our government requires us to put a uniquely identifiable number on our vehicles which can be so easily captured. That’s an entirely different subject – but one I think should also be addressed. The government mandate to display tags puts us at risk.

    • Carlos_Miller

      From his FB page. A message to parents to tell their kids not to be afraid of cops, but then giving them a reason to tell their kids to be afraid of cops.

  • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

    smells like a nazi. hanging seems appropriate for his crime.

  • Christopher Shepard

    Strait to voicemail…

  • Dr. T. Waters

    Any psychopath can get hired at any PD because they don’t have a screening process in place.

  • jay

    here is his personal facebook https://www.facebook.com/kwcounts?fref=photo

    • f.x.koch

      and they still give him a gun,,,,there is some built up anger in that person

    • Notgonnahappen77

      After reading some of his facebook posts his behavior in this video doesn’t surprise me at all.

  • 32233232

    Hey look, another shit for brains low IQ cop illegally detaining a member of the public.

    Do these cops even know it’s legal to use lethal force against cops that illegally detain people?

    • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

      Hey look, another shit for brains low IQ troll who doesn’t even do research before he posts something spectacularly stupid.

      Do these trolls even know that the officer in question has three academic degrees? An associate, a bachelor, and a masters?

      Do these trolls know that in California, as with most other states, it is not legal to use force, much less lethal force, against officers who illegally detain someone? That even in the states where one can use deadly force, it just drops the level of the offense from murder to manslaughter?

      Here’s your sign.

      • hazy

        If he got his AA, BA and MA in criminal justice, is that really such a noble/difficult field of study? Let’s be honest now ECLS. =)

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          To get an MA/MS in any field means that you are not an idiot, although I agree that CJ is pretty much a useless degree. None of my degrees were in CJ. I understand why some get those degrees, but I wouldn’t.

          • hazy

            I disagree, there are plenty of idiots out there with a college education. This cop demonstrates poor critical thinking skills when he says that the interior of a car is considered “private”, even though those cars are parked on a public thoroughfare.

            I’d even go further to say that the amount of importance of a college degree has been inflated by the industry to squeeze as much money out of the population as possible.

            I’m one of the suckers that got a useless LA degree, whatever though.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Actually, he’s correct. The interior of a car is considered private in many regards. You cannot be charged with Public Intoxication if you are inside of a car. The inside of a car is protected from random searches. He’s just mistaking that for a privacy right that doesn’t exist, that you cannot photograph it from a public space. It is not an uncommon mistake.

          • hazy

            If a cursory glance from the exterior of the car into the interior does not reveal PC/RAS then a search/seizure would be illegal. If however a cursory glance revealed PC/RAS(a joint left out on the dash or perhaps blood splattered over the back window) that is plenty probable cause to search and seize.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Exactly.

            Or, if when contacted by the officer, you forgot about the joint behind your ear.

          • Jared Gaiser

            Mr. Law Student. It doesn’t matter what laws are made by crusty old “lawmakers” that would not know reality if it shit on their front porch. There may be state “laws’ that are put in place to protect the government from accountability, but in REALITY and as upheld by SCOTUS, a citizen has EVERY right to defend themselves against a cop who is threatening their liberty or safety.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Oh really? Well excuse the hell out of me! Just tell me the cases, so I can help to spread the word.

            Or, if you don’t have that information, some info so I can find it, because none of that are in any of the SCOTUS opinions that are published.

          • Jared Gaiser

            “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer’s life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

            “An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.

            “When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

            “These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

            “An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

            “Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

            “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

            “Story affirmed the right of self-defense by persons held illegally. In his own writings, he had admitted that ‘a situation could arise in which the checks-and-balances principle ceased to work and the various branches of government concurred in a gross usurpation.’ There would be no usual remedy by changing the law or passing an amendment to the Constitution, should the oppressed party be a minority. Story concluded, ‘If there be any remedy at all … it is a remedy never provided for by human institutions.’ That was the ‘ultimate right of all human beings in extreme cases to resist oppression, and to apply force against ruinous injustice.’” (From Mutiny on the Amistad by Howard Jones, Oxford University Press, 1987, an account of the reading of the decision in the case by Justice Joseph Story of the Supreme Court.

            As for grounds for arrest: “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197).

            Anything else, genius?

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Sure. That’s from the constitution.org site, which is written by another whackjob who is not a lawyer (although he did run for Texas Attorney General – he lost). It has been addressed numerous times on this site and others. To save time, I’ll refer you to the following:

            A large number of Internet wannabe experts cite cases from this webpage when arguing the proposition that a citizen may resist a police officer making an “unlawful” arrest. Let’s look at the post, the actual cases, and the law.

            “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer’s life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

            OK, let’s look at what Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306, 34 N.E. 968 (1983) actually says. First, the opinion of the Indiana Supreme Court doesn’t have the quoted material anywhere in the opinion. Not even in the headnotes (which are not part of the opinion anyway). Second, what the opinion does say is the exact opposite. It states “[i]f the officer is resisted before he has used needless force and violence, he may then press forward and overcome such resistance, even to the taking of the life of the person arrested, if absolutely necessary.” Id. at 313, 34 N.E. at 969 (emphasis added). If the officer is being resisted, then the officer can use any force necessary, up to and including deadly force. Nothing at all about the citizen using deadly force. What the opinion does state is that if the officer uses unnecessary, excessive force, a person has the right to defend themselves from that excessive force. Here the officer hit Plummer over the head from behind with a billy club, and then shot at Plummer. Plummer shot back, more accurately, and killed Marshal Dorn. The court said “[w]hen a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel force by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self-defense, his assailant is killed, he is justifiable.” Id. at 314, 34 N.E. at 970. Plummer is still good law for what it actually says, that a citizen may defend himself against an officer’s excessive force.

            One can also tell when someone is citing the Bad Elk case from this website. They always cite the case the exact way that the wannabe cited it, as John Bad Elk v. U.S. There’s only one problem with that–it’s not the correct way to cite the case, which should be listed as Bad Elk v. United States, 177 U.S. 529 (1900). Legal citation only uses the last name of the party, and U.S. is not abbreviated. The quoted portion is accurate, but is cherry-picking. Earlier in the opinion, the Court says

            At common law, if a party resisted arrest by an officer without warrant, and who had no right to arrest him, and if in the course of that resistance the officer was killed, the offence of the party resisting arrest would be reduced from what would have been murder, if the officer had had the right to arrest, to manslaughter. What would be murder, if the officer had the right to arrest, might be reduced to manslaughter by the very fact that he had no such right.

            Id. at 534.

            The Court lists about ten citations as supporting authority for this statement. The statement cited has none, but is clearly referring to a self-defense right as in Plummer. That may or may not have been present here. Another item that the post doesn’t mention is that Bad Elk was a tribal police officer. In any event, Bad Elk is no longer considered good law in much of the country, having been superseded by statutes that prohibit resisting arrest even if the arrest is unlawful. See State v. Gallagher, 465 A.2d 232 (Conn. 1983); State v. Haas, 596 A.2d 127 (N.H. 1991); Villafranca v. United States, No. 3:06-CV-0806-N, 2008 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 111716, 2008 WL 8919855 (N.D. Tex. 2008).

            Continuing to the second paragraph of the post, which states

            “An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.

            Again, the quoted material does not appear in the citation listed. Instead the Illinois Supreme Court states in Housh v. People, 57 Ill. 491 (1874) that when a judge issues a warrant that he does not have jurisdiction to issue, a constable or other officer may not be held liable for voluntarily releasing the person arrested under such warrant. The opinion does not mention resistance, does not mention killing, and does not mention manslaughter. The State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452 (1829) most assuredly did not “reaffirmed and quoted” Housh, indeed it was impossible for it to do so, having been decided 45 years before the Housh decision. Instead, Leach was cited in the Housh decision, as supporting authority.

            Neither Housh nor Leach is cited in State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245, 4 P. 363 (1884), which is about the authority of a county attorney to file criminal charges on an information instead of an indictment. Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 340, 1 N.E. 76 (1885) states the opposite of the premise of the post. It states that if an officer is making an arrest, even if the information is false and the accused innocent, the accused is bound to submit to the arrest and seek redress in the courts. Ballard’s conviction for murder in the first degree was affirmed.

            State v. Rousseau, 241 P.2d 447 (Wash. 1952) does state that an individual has a common law right to resist an unlawful arrest, but has one major problem. It was overruled. The citation should read State v. Rousseau, 241 P.2d 447 (Wash. 1952), overruled by State v. Valentine, 935 P.2d 1294 (Wash. 1997), which stated that one could only legally resist if the officers were using unlawful or excessive force.

            The last case cited, State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 361, 25 N.W. 793 (1885) also does not say what the post claims it states. It reverses a murder conviction on the fact the original arrest warrant could not be found and that the state did not lay a proper foundation for admitting oral testimony as to the original arrest warrant. It cites none of the other cases, but does state that the only time that an officer may be resisted is if the officer is using unlawful, excessive force.

            The other cases are similarly wrong. Whether this was an inadvertent error by the site owner, or a deliberate attempt to falsify the information, the end results are the same. It’s wrong, and if you cite them in court to defend yourself, you are going to get screwed. Even worse, if you base your actions in dealing with a police officer on this page, and you resist to the point that the officer is killed, you could end up with a needle in your arm.

            Anything else, whackjob?

          • Jared Gaiser

            Yes, can you explain how any of your long winded attempt to double talk your way out of this actually says that a citizen does not have the right to defend themselves against the unlawful actions of a police officer. As a matter of fact, you go on to actually strengthen the argument. Not one part of your novel addresses the fact that self defense laws do not exclude the actions of police officers. Placing your hands on somebody, throwing them on the ground and placing them in restraints is most definitely unlawful force when there is no legal justification for doing so as dictated by constitutional law.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            OK. I’m tired of arguing. You win.

            Yawn.

          • Jared Gaiser

            Oh, I’m sure you are. It is apparent by the amount of time you spend commenting on this site that you have much better things to do.

          • hazy

            Dude you’re a fuckin asshole. You realize he’s trying to help right? That he was one of the good cops, saw the corruption in the system and is now trying to fix it in another way? It’s not easy to go to law school, deal with the fuckin holier than thou professors only to go to a shitty 50k/year lawyering job when he already had an 80k/year plus pension job as a cop.

            I have no idea why he gave it up, maybe he just saw something really fucked up, but he’s seen life through both lenses. Being a cop is definitely not easy. You meet the SCUM of the earth. I can understand why they become blood thirsty sometimes because the job requires you to be a tough person. This doesn’t excuse the bad behavior but it explains why the problems exist in the system.

            You don’t fix the problems by making the USA an even more dangerous place for police to work, you make it so that the police have absolutely no fear of death and have no choice but to finally decide that lethal force should be used sparingly.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            I made sure I got my pension before I got out.

          • hazy

            Well that’s cool. Do you have a story on your blog about why you decided to get out of policing and go into lawyering?

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Nope.

      • dickgosinya48

        Tell that to Richard Allen Maxwell.

  • Falutin Free

    Another prohibited NYPD chokehold:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfsSKC6k0YA#t=105

  • officer cunts
  • LegalHispanic

    I am glad the idiot filming got arrested….all he had to do was cooperate. The fact that he was a douche sealed his fate….

    • inquisitor

      So if the officer told you that you needed to suck his dick…than all you would do is cooperate.

      • LegalHispanic

        No, but from the sounds of it you are no stranger to balls flying in your face…douche

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          Personally, I think both of you can practice on each other. You know, a pendejo y chorra, together again…

          • hazy

            Jake Hoyt: Oh, what, so just let the animals wipe themselves out, right?

            Alonzo Harris: God willing. Fuck ‘em, and everybody that looks like ‘em.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            LOL, yeah, something like that.

    • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

      jawohl

      • LegalHispanic

        Same to you…

    • Carlos_Miller

      I hope you’re not a lawyer.

      • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

        he’ll sue yer ass

    • Carlos_Miller

      Oh, I get it, you’re trying to set yourself apart from the Hispanics who are in this country illegally.

      • LegalHispanic

        Your Point???

        • Carlos_Miller

          At first, I was under the impression you were some type of lawyer because of your username, but you were proving clueless about the law, but then I realized the point behind your username.

          • LegalHispanic

            Very good….I am a naturalized US Citizen. I came here on a student visa to study computer programing. I really love this country and all it stands for. I have respect enough to obey all it’s laws. That said I have had contact with Police Officers here and find them to be very respectfully and educated. In alot of these videos I find that the people recording seem to generate the trouble the find themselves in. People in this country are spoiled, they don’t realize how good they have it here. i was born in Mexico, if you really want to see police brutality go down there. Juarez has one of the worst homicide rates in the world. This country has it’s problems, but I have found that if you treat the police with respect they deserve you will get the same treatment in return. That said I am not a criminal I work hard for my money so I don’t have time to go around videotaping on the streets all day. Why create problems where there are none….just my opinion. Obey the laws and I promise you will have minimal contact with law enforcement. This truly is a great country. This guy in Mexico would have been missing if he talked crap to the cops….

          • Carlos_Miller

            Our goal is to prevent the cops in this country from becoming worse than they already are, which is why we choose to record them.

            But they seem to have an issue with that, which indicates they either must have something to hide or they simply just like to exert their power, even if it means barking unlawful orders.

            We are obeying the laws. The cops are not obeying the laws.

            If you ever find yourself confronted by a cop with anger management issues and he starts to take it out on you, you’re going to be appreciate if somebody was there video recording the incident.

          • LegalHispanic

            Oh come on, you really want to do some good go to Mexico and stop police corruption. You have no clue how good you have it here. This country is truly filled with spoiled people. Most of these incidents that are filmed could have been avoided by obeying the law and or not breaking the law….

          • Carlos_Miller

            Dude, you’re the one from Mexico that came here, so don’t expect us to go down there and sort out the issues you ran from.

            But don’t expect us to fall to our knees and start sucking cop cock as you do either.

            You obviously haven’t been here long enough to understand the laws because recording the cops is not against the law and refusing to provide ID is not against the law if the cop has no reasonable suspicion you are committing a crime.

            This guy had his charges dismissed, which should be enough to teach you he wasn’t breaking the law.

            You come here and insult us for being “spoiled people”?

            How about you go fuck yourself, you ungrateful fuck?

            I wouldn’t be surprised if now that you have citizenship, you plan on becoming a cop because you come across like a control freak.

            And if you do, I’m hope I’m there to give you a lesson in the U.S. Constitution.

            Pendejo.

          • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

            How do we REALLY know he’s here legally Carlos? I think he needs to show us his papers. Just cooperate and everything will be fine.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Pendejo. That’s a good descriptor.

          • hazy

            Which is why I don’t understand when the bad cop no donut subreddit gets submissions about other countries. You go fix your own messes, I can’t fix Canada’s problems from USA other than setting a good example of what a bastion of freedom should look like.

          • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

            Pindejo

          • http://www.policemisconduct.net Film The Police Always

            That why this place isn’t that shit hole you came from,……MEXICO! I don’t have to respect anyone, and if I decide to not respect a cop then guess what, you as a cop then either give me my ticket or don’t give me a ticket and get the fuck away from me. End of story! My lack of respect is not a reason to hurt me. I’m making this very clear, and this is no internet tough guy crap, but if a cop EVER hurts me or one of mine, I will make national news if caught. It may take a while, but as god is my witness I will take out my revenge on him/her or theirs. It’s that simple, if you don’t want you or yours hurt, don’t hurt me or mine! If I ever get called to Jury Duty for a revenge attack I will never vote guilty. Promise!

          • stk33

            One of the main reasons the cops in this country are more professional and courteous is exactly because activists like those whose videos you see on this website constantly keep them in check by making their deeds known to the public.

          • AmericanVet

            So in other words, you came here with an excuse and never left…..Got it!

    • hazy

      What if I don’t want to cooperate? Does that entitle the police to arrest me? The only way they should be allowed to compel you is through a court order.

    • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

      How do the cops really know that you are a “legal” Hispanic instead of one of those illegal aliens when you’re walking down the street? Just cooperate and show us your papers and you won’t be arrested.

      • stk33

        He certainly will.

    • Jared Gaiser

      That is not how it works, here, José. The police and the government are not meant to have the power in America, but because of ignorant, spineless maggots like yourself, they get away with it on a daily basis while using the ignorance of people like you to justify their actions.

      It is not illegal to be an idiot. It is not illegal to film in a public location. It is not illegal to be in the are of a crime scene (unless it is specifically blocked off). It is not illegal to ask a cop questions, it is not illegal to resist questioning from a cop, nor is it illegal to be a dick. It is, however, illegal to detain, kidnap, and assault a person for any of those reasons whether you are a cop or not.

      • Guest

        I meant to say:

        It is however illegal to detain, kidnap, and assault a person for any of the above reasons whether you are a cop or not.

  • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

    sgt bupkuswitch? lol

  • Ordinary Citizen

    Does anyone keep track of why charges are dismissed? Does it create some sort of paper trail leading back to the officers inability to do his job properly?

    Mr. Enz claims (on his YouTube page) that he was charged with obstruction and false ID. Then he alleges that the charges were dropped. It’s hard to tell the truth from a person with the writing skills of a sixth grader.

    Let’s suppose there was a lack of probable cause to arrest Mr. Enz. Does that make Officer Counts stupid or merely ignorant of the laws which he is charged to uphold. Let’s suppose it was an illegal search. Does that make Officer Counts incompetent or merely unable to prove that which he alleges in his arrest report. Let’s suppose there’s a lack of evidence. Does that make Officer Counts an over-reaching blowhard or merely a retaliatory dumbass?

    • Frodo

      I doubt it makes a difference how many charges are dropped after you arrest someone. I think it may only have an indirect effect if there is some sort of quota for arrests and all your arrests end up being bogus, in which case, you don’t meet your quota for the month or week.

  • Christopher Shepard

    PINAC, making a difference. Love to see our work as a community have real impact in regards to the rights of photographers.

  • Bill Larson

    The officer did not have probable cause to detain this young man and as such the arrest was illegal. Since the arrest was clearly illegal, then the officer does not have qualified immunity and is directly liable in a civil action. Sue the shit out of him.

    • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

      He’s still indemnified by the city.

      And I’ll bet that the QI is not going to be as simple as you think either.

    • stk33

      To detain, you don’t need probable cause, you need reasonable suspicion. If what the cop said about the ongoing nearby investigation was true (very likely it was not, or was irrelevant and only used as an excuse, but if), it might be valid. And in these circumstances (real ongoing investigation), it’s possible that refusing to identify would even raise to obstruction even in non-stop-and-identify state like CA. See this article:

      http://www.riddelllaw.com/refusing-officers-request-for-identification-not-enough-for-an-obstruction-of-official-business-charge/

      and note the condition in the first paragraph of it.

      • stk33

        Here’s very good post on the issue, made by a cop 8 years ago. It’s so good that i will not just link it, but cite it:

        https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060711011931AAbmgHG

        (…)
        So the answer to your question, given the very limited amount of detail you provided, is no…you do not have to show ID when requested for a “random” reason.

        HOWEVER:

        You are not going to be in any position to decide if the request is just a random one. The police might have a very valid reason to request your identification, and they are not required to tell you what it is before you hand over the ID.

        One sure way to find out if they have the legal right to demand your identification is to refuse to hand it over. If they have the legal right to demand it, and you refuse to hand it over, the next sound you hear will be handcuffs. If that’s a chance you’re prepared to take, then refuse all requests for identification from law enforcement. You’ll only get arrested on those occasions when the request was legally justified.

        If you’re one of those people who just object to the idea of telling the police who you are, get over it. We can and do make it our business to know who someone is if we have an interest in them. If you want to be the guy that refuses to identify yourself on principle, go for it. Be prepared to have unpleasant run-ins with law enforcement.

        You asked about showing your ID. That implies that you will have it with you. If you don’t have your ID with you, then you can’t show it, can you? However, that’s no magic bullet, either. If you are in a situation where the police have legal justification for knowing who you are, and you cannot prove who you are, you run a HUGE risk of being booked into the local jail until such time as you do prove who you are. And we are not required to take your word for it, or to accept anything less than official government-issued identification with a photo on it.

        So the second answer to your question, given the very limited amount of detail you provided, is yes…you should ID yourself unless you want to run the risk of getting arrested.

        I’m not guessing, and the evidence I can provide you is that I’m:

        Source:

        In my 19th year of California law enforcement.

        • Jared Gaiser

          This is a very well written, straight to the point explanation from an officer’s perspective on the issue. It is very easy for those who are critical of police behavior (including myself) to become blinded and one sided, forgetting that there are 2 sides to every story.

          On the other side, however, a person knows whether or not they committed a crime and the officer has no way of really knowing whether or not a person they are interacting with -and/or accusing- is telling the truth on the matter or not. In the United States, we have the right NOT to be labeled and treated as criminals unless it has been proven and confirmed by a jury that we are in fact guilty of a crime.

          So the bottom line is, the police can continue to take the stand that they are the ultimate authority on dictating when freedom and constitutional rights apply -resulting in lawsuits, bad public image, etc…-, or they can go back to the job they were meant to have, find a better way to do it, and become the heroes the sheeple actually believe they are.

          • stk33

            > we have the right NOT to be labeled and treated as criminals unless it
            > has been proven and confirmed by a jury that we are in fact guilty
            > of a crime.

            As Dale Carson writes in his book “arrest-proof yourself”, anybody who gets arrested (regardless of the outcome of the arrest), is labeled for the rest of their life, by virtue of the arrest record uploaded into NCIC and becoming available to road class of curious partties, from future potential employers* to patrol cars looking for the most “promising” targets to pull over. He calls it “electronic plantation”.

            *) and even current employer. The book has an example of a professional who had been terminated from her current job after she was arrested, without any charges, because her emploer ran background checks on all employees and terminated anybody had even an unpaid traffic ticket.

  • StreyDawg

    “I will do my job the way that I have been trained to do it.”

    “Officer” Counts.

  • coradon1

    They should re-arrest him for his spelling offenses against the English language.

  • o0THX11380o

    There needs to be some type of repercussions for the cops when charges get dropped after they arrest someone. They know full well that the charges wont stick, and that being arrested is a huge ordeal for ordinary people and they use it as a way to punish.

    • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

      Complaint to the agency and lawsuit. Even if nothing comes from it, you can put the cop through the ringer, just like he did to you.

      • KB

        Actualy the cop gets paid for being there and then the state picks up the fees for the defence so No you cant put a cop thru the ringer like he does us.

        • Pragmatic Liberaltarian

          You’re correct that it won’t cost the cop money out of pocket. It seem to me however that being sued, answering questions under oath in a depo or trial, being investigated by IA, and having all of this on your record is not good from either a stress free perspective or career advancement.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            A depo is a pain in the ass, but not especially stressful.

            An IA investigation is always stressful, but a lawsuit will not necessarily trigger an IA.

            The suit itself, at least in my case, was not stressful. I’m sure that a lot of that had to do with the fact that I knew we were entirely within the bounds of the law and that we had the evidence to prove it.

            If you win the lawsuit, it really doesn’t affect advancement. Settlements and losses might, but a win doesn’t.

          • Jared Gaiser

            It sounds like you are an expert on being investigated for misconduct. How did you go about getting that Ex-Cop title anyways?

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Retired. 20 years was enough, and now I get to live off of your dime for the rest of my life. Plus y’all are paying for my law school.

  • Bianca Bradley

    The training consisted of HOly crap, stop making me field phone calls and recieve and answer emails over stupid stuff. Don’t bug people filming in public view. You owe me 3 bottles of ibuprophen at the next poker meet.

    • KB

      Still more training then they had befor.

  • Carlos_Miller

    I understand everybody is trying to help, but I will delete any personal information posted of cops. We need to set standards and keep it professional.

    We can bombard them at work with calls and emails, but let’s not make it so personal where we bring it into their personal lives.

    • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

      ^^^ Which is the difference between professional conduct and a lynch mob.

      Bravo, Carlos.

      • Rail Car Fan

        There’s nothing wrong with a lynching as long as it’s a “Badge Bully” cop at the end of the rope!

        Rail Car Fan

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          I agree, people that bully those with badges should be at the end of the rope.

          Did you want to start it off by volunteering?

          • dickgosinya48

            Here’s your sign.

          • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

            lol

            still trying to forget this visual, ugh

            lol

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Boy you must really like motorjocks. Fantasize about it all the time do ya?

          • dickgosinya48

            Read your own statements, I was just helping you with visuals. Figures you wouldn’t appreciate it.

          • Rail Car Fan

            It’s obvious by your reply that you’re unable to read and correctly interpret everyday common American English.

            As to your: “did you want to start it off by volunteering?”

            Your above comment makes no sense at all… and as such, can only be taken as another irrational one given by you, as most of yours typically are.

            Nice try. Thanks for playing.

            Rail Car Fan

      • stk33

        Part of the professional conduct is responsibility for your actions. When that part is missing, it creates a vacuum that naturally gets filled by an alternative, and yes, lynch mob is the one the society has created for this exact vacuum. Restore the missing part, and the alternative becomes excessive and quickly disappears.

    • http://www.policemisconduct.net Film The Police Always

      Sometimes it takes their family members to be shook up to get it through their heads. When this thugs wife see’s that her husbands bad rights violating actions are causing a possible issue for her or their children then they will make sure that his/her cleans the fuck up. Fear is always a good thing. The system pry’s money out of our pockets for things like speeding to deter us from speeding. Why is it not fair for a citizen to enact their own punishment when the system clearly allows and protects their bad behavior? Someone has to do something. For me, I could care less about what happens to any of them or their family members. I always hope something happens so these thugs across the country say, “did you hear what happened to that cop (or family) in such in such state”? Not that I don’t have a heart, but its very easy for me to separate myself from any of these thugs because I don’t know them. For me, it’s a pretty simple concept, either clean it up or deal with the repercussions that you create.

      • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

        And you just proved yourself a hypocrite.

        You say that there shouldn’t be guilt by association, no victim – no crime, etc., but you are willing to terrorize innocents to get what you want.

        Which is the reason that you are a whackjob.

    • dickgosinya48

      I thought you said you wanted to create a database of these assholes?

      • Carlos_Miller

        A database of their names, faces, rank, department and anything related to their work, including internal affairs complaints, etc.

    • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

      It should be personal to the gestapo. They’ve made it that way and continue to make it that way to everyone else – most aggressively when they get caught red-handed. Case in point: Travis Roley of cape coral.

      The rat list should absolutely be used so that people can go visit their LEOs everywhere to express their viewpoints. or have a lynching party, as appropriate.

      That said, I can understand you wanting to take the high road. Probably a better choice, even though afnmfh.

    • stk33

      Carlos, your point is clear, however, for the people who get falsely arrested, it becomes very personal, the arrest becomes known, it’s published in local paper, and it does affect their families in neighborhood, in community, their kids in school etc etc. There’s no reason the same shouldn’t be done to the true offenders.

      • Carlos_Miller

        We expose the cops with their names, their pictures and any public records information we can dig up.

        Publishing their personal information will only allow them to kick up the Police PR Spin Machine and use it against us.

        It also drags their families into it and we need to be better than that. We don’t need to stoop down to their level.

    • jwalsh

      I agree!

  • dickgosinya48

    The letter confirms what we already know about law enforcement; They don’t train their employees on the law nearly as much as they do on how to get away with acts of violence. If they substituted half the time they teach idiots how to fight or shoot people and put that effort into educating them about the fuckin’ laws they’re supposed to be enforcing, we would see a lot fewer of these incidents. Most law enforcement agencies thrive on plausible deniability so that anything these morons do can’t be blamed on the agency itself. It’s a time tested way to build a team of ignorant thugs that ” think” they’re justified in doing just about anything. Just use one of the following three words in a sentence or phrase and your covered; safety, scared or suspicious.

  • M J

    From a nordic perspective it is quite odd that you still call USA the land of the free. This would practically never happen here. Its more like the land of the ones they wish they were free and fighting with tooth and nail for their last rights.

    • ENTWAFFNUNGDERGESTAPO!

      I call it the nazi states of america (NSA). no blind faith here.

  • K.c. Miller

    Bully with a badge. Cowards at heart

  • http://www.blog2.tshirt-doctor.com/ Pissed Off

    Just another episode in their unending war against the Bill of Rights.

  • Ian Battles

    So if I handcuffed and detained a person because I thought an act was illegal, I wouldn’t be charged with a crime?

    • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

      It depends.

      • LibertyEbbs

        On whether you’re a cop or not.

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          No, on other facts. Was it a shopowner and a suspected shoplifter, where the owner saw something that appeared to be theft, but turned out not to be? Some stranger coming out of your neighbors house, who you (incorrectly) believed to be a burglar?

          You have to present more facts, or the answer is “it depends.”

          • LibertyEbbs

            I think any reasonable, honest person watching that video has all the facts necessary to conclude that Officer Douche is a criminal. Case in point is the BS letter from the update which deflects the issue by stating that the question is about whether this cop violated policy. I don’t give a rip about their policy, but the cop violated state and federal law and should be out on bond waiting for his next court appearance. Stop minimizing his crimes.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Where did I minimize his crime, you moron?

            Ian asked a question, I answered it. I said nothing about the officer.

          • hazy

            Honestly these are questions left for a judge to analyze in a qualified immunity trial. They have a flow chart, it consists of 3 questions usually, not really in the mood to go web searching for it right now though.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Two questions.

            1. Was there a constitutional violation such as excessive force, etc.?

            2. Was the right clearly established in that jurisdiction?

  • John

    While photographing a street protest march I was physically detained by a Seattle Police Traffic cop and told I had to obtain permission from anyone I photographed. I told him he didn’t know what he was talking about and he threatened me with jail. He released me after other photographers started photographing him gripping my arm and detaining me. I filed a complaint with the SPD and got the same bullshit response expressed in this letter: training was conducted for the traffic division in photographer rights. I doubt if it was much more than a memo sent out.

  • Average_Minnesotan

    Ha! It’s all fun and games ’til you get arrested! That kid was being a smart-ass douche to the cop. I don’t blame the cop for arresting him.

    • Falutin Free

      Being a douche isn’t illegal.

    • Jared Gaiser

      You should change your name. You do not represent the average Minnesotan.

      You have every right to be a smart-ass douche just like you have every right not to like smart ass douches. What you don’t have the right to do is detain and kidnap smart-ass douches simply because you don’t like it and have a badge.

      • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

        Ohh, tough guy.

        • dickgosinya48

          you would know.

          • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

            Yeah, I would.

            Neither of y’all would make the cut.

  • Ydek HTP

    Nice run-on sentences Chief Kim Raney. I NEVER correct spelling or grammer, but I will hold someone in that high of a position to the highest of standards. This has got to be a complete joke.

  • Doug Shaw

    THIS IS WHY WE WONT CARE WHEN OFFICERS ARE KILLED IN THE LINE OF DUTY.

    • Victor Cachat

      Please jump off a high bridge now before you cause a further lowering of the aggregate IQ of this nation.

  • sololobo

    Sounds like he got taken in for not providing ID. He did not get arrested for filming. Put yourselves in the officers shoes for a minute. What would you guys do?

    • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

      Well, speaking as a former officer, not violating his rights would be a good start.

      From what was on the video, there did not appear to be reasonable suspicion that the subject was involved in criminal activity. That is an extremely low standard, and if you can’t make that level, you do not compound the error by arresting the individual for obstructing by failure to provide identification.

      • sololobo

        That is fair to say. What would you have told this David guy? Or how would have you handled this?

        • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

          I don’t know. I don’t know what type of crime that the officer was investigating, if there was a suspect description, etc. Without all of the details, it is impossible to state.

  • Vince

    Just to clarify the whole resisting arrest thing, the court was very clear several times that a citizen has the right to resist an unlawful use of force and not an unlawful arrest. See Wilson v. State which sites Plummer v. State. Plummer has been sited in numerous court case as a way to justify resisting arrest and every single court has rejected the argument unless unlawful force was used.

    • http://excoplawstudent.wordpress.com/ ExCop-LawStudent

      Exactly. The key to being able to resist under the Plummer v. State, 34 N.E. 968 (Ind. 1893) rule is that the officer had to use excessive force first, without resistance, to try and make the arrest. Wilson v. State, 842 N.E.2d 443 (Ind. App. 2006). Only then does the right to self-defense kick in, otherwise, as Vince notes, the Plummer argument fails.

      Of course, this has no bearing on the current matter for a number of reasons. First, the arrest was in California, not Indiana, and an Indiana court decision is not binding precedent in California. Second, the officer did not use excessive force in making the arrest. Third, in California, resisting arrest, even if an unlawful arrest, is a crime, Cal. Penal Code §§ 148, 834a (West); People v. Montiel, 855 P.2d 1277 (Cal. 1993).

  • Notorious_bob

    4th amendment, like much of the Constitution, is dead. I miss America.

  • Murphy J NY

    Bullshit response from the Chief, you know they all laughed about it. Fuck cameras, use guns. By their actions they are attacking America.

  • LREKing

    A 1,200-pound horse eats about seven times its own weight each year.

    How is that relevant?

  • pitman45

    Oh Waldo, Michael Moore loves Capitalism, he hates capitalist pigs! You know, like the Koch Brothers and Mitt Romney and…

  • LREKing

    What do you have against horses?

  • http://www.telescreen.org Vidiot

    Your point? If you have an argument to make, make it.

  • jackassletters

    You can’t beat them when they are dead.

  • LREKing

    Sure you can, but you’ll never get them to change their behavior that way.

    Meanwhile, some good eatin’, eh?

  • Joe

    yes you can! are we doing it now?

  • Bianca Bradley

    Do you really think that is a good idea?
    Why not provide his work address instead?

  • http://www.policemisconduct.net Film The Police Always

    Wifes name and place of business?

  • Jared Gaiser

    …and…Obama…and…the Clintons….and….

  • pitman45

    And what ? Their wealth is a pittance compared to multi-billionaires Koch Brothers and half billionaire Willard Romney. Nice try but you failed!.

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